Andrea Ormsby: 00:00:00.381
Were raising adults. Really think about the adult that you are trying to raise. Now, know that you can raise them one way and they can completely go on a different branch.

Gretchen Roe: 00:00:13.317
And that doesn’t mean you didn’t do a terrific job.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:00:15.767
Correct. And so you’re not responsible for how they end up. You are responsible for what you can do while they are still in your care. [music]

Gretchen Roe: 00:00:31.788
Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to The Demme Learning Show. This is Gretchen Roe, and I am so delighted today to have the opportunity to have a conversation with Andrea Ormsby. I think the reason why I’m so delighted will unfold as we carry this conversation, but let me say this. I met Andrea back in early May when she was a speaker at a women’s convention in Maryland, and she has such a compelling story. And the reason I wanted her to bring this to you all today is because so many of us limit ourselves in what we are capable of achieving. And that’s not Andrea. So she has a story to tell that I want her to share with you and I want you to be able to fit yourself in the frame as we have our conversation. And so Andrea, welcome. Tell us a little bit. What would you like our audience to know about you?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:01:29.657
Well, thank you, first of all, for allowing me to be here and share my story. I really do hope that my story does bless and help anyone out there, any mom, any woman, any daughter, whoever it is. I’m originally from Canada, Toronto, A, yes. And my parents are actually originally from Jamaica. So they were immigrant parents. And I was first generation in Canada when I– born and raised. And then I also was the first one to go to college or university in my family. And so I was the first of three children. And so part of what I shared at my speech that you heard was the fact that I was the guinea pig for everything, school, education, otherwise. And I’m coming from parents who, because of the way that they were brought up, didn’t have very much education and therefore, believed education was the way to get anywhere. And so regardless of the struggle or the fight that was required, my father didn’t pass third grade in terms of reading. He taught me how to read because he was insistent on providing me opportunities that he didn’t have. And so because of that, regardless of what was happening or what activities I got into, I was going to university, college, whatever it looked like, and beyond. I was accused of being a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, all of it. [laughter] And it’s funny because now that I’m a parent, I have been all of it with my children, of course.

Gretchen Roe: 00:03:07.952
Absolutely.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:03:09.726
But yes, it actually was because of their struggle and their hard work, and their perseverance that I was able to observe and appreciate what sacrifice is and what it means. My father taught us from an early age to do without until you can do better. And so that’s what we did. And so even when I went to university, we did not get approval for a loan when I was going to university, even though we probably should have, so to speak. At least that was what was expected by the counselor who advised me on how to choose courses, because she automatically let me know how to apply for loans. However, she did not know how much my father and parents actually worked over time. And therefore, we did not qualify for a loan. And my parents didn’t know anything borrowing off a house or anything like that. We owned our house, but they didn’t know anything about that. And so they worked and paid for me to go to school. And because of their sacrifices, I was able to do so without a loan. And so that’s how I graduated with a business and sociology degree.

Gretchen Roe: 00:04:19.955
Having started life in Canada, I know now that you live in the Maryland area, how did you get from Canada to Maryland?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:04:27.518
Good place to stop and start. So with a graduate, a bachelor’s in Business and Soc[iology] and I did a postgrad in Human Resources Management that I just happened to find out about. I was working, but I kept feeling I was hitting a ceiling. I wasn’t really getting into higher-level roles. And eventually, I don’t like routine. And there was a lot of routine jobs that I was getting. And so being who I am, I love to travel. I’ve been to many different countries around the world, even back then by myself. And I had an opportunity to travel as a missionary across Canada, raising money. And so I left my job at the time and ended up doing that full-time. And then after that period of time, I had difficulty finding any job, even getting an interview. And so I came for a visit here to Maryland. And do you want me to tell my story about how I met my now husband?

Gretchen Roe: 00:05:30.236
Yeah, because I think it’s a compelling one, so.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:05:34.838
So while this is going on, I’m a strong believer in God. And he has a plan for all of us, whether we know what it is or not. So I’m looking for work. And I’m thinking, I’m going to go outside Canada. I’m thinking of Jamaica. And I’m thinking of Atlanta. I actually applied and got into an executive MBA program in Atlanta. And just because I didn’t realize I could live where I wanted to live because I had to attend classes, that’s the only reason why I didn’t go. So I’m looking for work. And in the meantime, my mother, she had a sister in the Maryland area who had actually had a stroke the year prior. And so she and four sisters that live, four out of five sisters, basically, came to visit her in Maryland. So my husband’s parents know one of my mother’s sisters and wanted to just say hi to her, give her something as a gift for just visiting. And my husband, because my father-in-law at the time had a rotator cuff surgery, he couldn’t drive physically. So my husband, now husband, ended up driving them. That’s why he was there. And because of the way my husband is, he saw four out of five sisters in one room, as he learned while being there, decided to take a bunch of pictures of all of them, ran over to CVS and made literally a photo book for each of them to take home.

Gretchen Roe: 00:06:53.395
Oh, my gosh.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:06:53.604
Of course, this caught my mother’s eye. As a mother, I now know what that meant. And so my mother is asking questions and my now mother-in-law was answering them. So things like, oh, where’s your wife right now? She’s answering, there is no wife. And he’s like, she’s, so what do you do for your days? And mother is answering, well, he’s working full time. And so through the conversation, my mother came home from the trip with a phone number that I decided I was not going to call because I had gotten to the point in my life that my mother is now trying to set me up. Absolutely not. Plus with a long-distance relationship. So I did not call, literally avoided making the phone call, then ended up feeling guilted into calling because she said, I told him you would call. So now I feel guilty that this person, I can only picture what he looks like, is going to feel slighted by someone who hadn’t even met him.

Gretchen Roe: 00:07:49.233
Oh, dear.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:07:49.505
And so I made the phone call. And literally, this is the opening words. In fact, I’m sorry, I didn’t make the phone call. I couldn’t find it. Long story short, my aunt ended up having to call him is who called me. And he calls me and his opening line is, “So my aunt, which is your aunt called me and told me how pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty you are. And I have to call you. So now I’m calling you and I’m asking you why do I have to call you [laughter]? Yeah, that was the opening line. Needless to say, that was the icebreaker. He didn’t intend it that way, it just literally– we were just totally blown away by why it’s so important for us to meet. And then because we were long-distance, neither one of us were interested in a long-distance relationship. But as God would have it, that also allowed the foundation for us to just be open. And just talk whatever we wanted to talk. We didn’t feel they were setting any false pretenses, we weren’t leading anyone on. We weren’t setting up any expectations. And that actually allowed us to get to know each other that much more.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:08:55.218

And so, fast-forward to I’ve now finished this mission work, I couldn’t find work, it’s my birthday, I’m frustrated. Because I don’t even have money to take a trip. Because I loved traveling. And as a birthday present, he paid for a bus ticket for me to come down to Maryland to visit this same aunt who had had a stroke. And so that was actually how we first officially met. On the bus, at the bus stop when he picked me up.

Gretchen Roe: 00:09:20.876
Wow.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:09:20.916
And while there, it was supposed to be a two-week trip. And while there I was applying to jobs still in Canada. And something popped up on monster-dot– whatever it was back then. I don’t even know what they are anymore. But it popped up and it had some jobs in the local area. And I thought, “Why not throw my hat in the ring?” Sure enough, I had more interviews in one week than I had had in six months in Toronto. And so, two weeks became three, became five. Got to six weeks and now of course, my now-husband and I had been spending a bit of time and getting to know each other more. And as it were, we were in a particular location, we were out to eat. He was taking me– he literally got me a phone so I could actually take calls. He was lending me his car occasionally to go to interviews. It was really something how God was really orchestrating everything. And so we’ve gotten to this point, it’s American Thanksgiving, and I decided I cannot just keep staying, living here off of my aunt. What are we going to do?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:10:24.967
So we literally prayed. And I was aiming at big-brand businesses, because I needed a visa, a work visa, to come. That I could get sponsored. So we were standing in front of this big-brand building. We both lay our hands on the building, and we’re praying, and we’re asking God if this is something that He wants us to be together. That he would open doors that only He can open. And I tell you, without a lie, the very next day I had an interview. I went on that interview, so that was the Monday before American Thanksgiving on the Thursday. So it was the Tuesday I went on to the interview, Wednesday morning I got the offer letter that I needed to go over to the border to apply for my visa. So Thursday, American Thanksgiving, I take the bus back to Canada with the intention of going across to the border. And essentially, on Friday, I got my work visa. And he flew– no, he ended up getting a drive over by a friend and drove back with me. So that I officially moved to the US on that Sunday and started my job that Monday.

Gretchen Roe: 00:11:30.451
That’s amazing. Now, when we had our discovery conversation together, I didn’t know that you had done missions work. So tell me a little bit about that, too.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:11:41.173
So I have traveled to Africa, I’ve been in Zambia and Zimbabwe. Literally, the Evangelist I traveled with will tell you that they almost left me because they kept begging for me to stay. The work that I did there was with women, focused more on women. And various, we worked in orphanges, we worked in a women’s there were two women’s conferences. So it was a conglomeration of Zimbabwe, Zambia, Congo women, very higher up in status there. But it was an opportunity for these different countries who in the past had been at opposite ends to now come together in the name of Christ and just focus on worship and what we can do as a country for our people. And so I was mainly charged with singing for worship because I do that as well. And then also there were opportunities that we had to go into churches. And so at one point, our evangelist was literally– because when you’re over there and they make your plans, you literally don’t know until the night before. And you say, “Okay, I’m going to be here. You take me wherever I go.” So literally this Sunday morning, she’s scheduled to be at eight different churches. And if you don’t know anything about that area, people will walk for days just to go to something that is that important. And so we already knew people were on the way and we didn’t want to disappoint. And so our very small team ended up getting separated and myself included ended up preaching that morning. But by God’s grace, I was able to lead people to Christ through the sermon that he gave in my heart.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:13:19.000
And so yes, we did a lot of different work in those different areas. The mission work specifically that I did that time when I shared my story was raising monies for a project that was bringing the Bible into schools. And so it was not Christian schools, and it was mainly focused on areas that didn’t have schools, but the goal was to help give them education because these children didn’t have anywhere to go to school. Their family couldn’t afford to send them. And at the same time, be able to weave the Word of God into what they were learning. And so the organization I was working for had people in these different areas that not only was distributing the materials, but also had volunteers that would come and also teach to the children. And we, as a group, it was a traveling theater group. We did a stage play called Little One. And so it was about an African girl who growing up and basically the struggles that she has to face as a young girl, seven-year-old who has an uncle who is diagnosed with AIDS.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:14:27.104
And there was a very prevalent belief that if you’re diagnosed with AIDS back then, that if you had sex with a virgin, it would cure you. And so unfortunately, and as ridiculous as it sounds to us on this side of the world, the desperation that goes around in people that are in those situations and then the lack of communication, the lack of knowledge, and even the lack of resources just allow the devil to run rampant and just sow these seeds into people’s minds. And so literally, this is something that did happen very commonly. And so I played Namambo, which was the lead character of the African woman. So it was a dinner theater. We basically would have members of our team that would cook part of the meal. And it was an African style meal that we set up for. You would have the main meal. We’d start the show. And then during intermission, we would serve out desserts and then they would have the end of the show. So I did that for a year, going to different churches to raise money.

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:28.422
Wow. Wow. So you’ve been influencing the lives of women, not just in Canada, not just in the United States, but in Africa as well, which is really interesting. So part of the reason that I wanted to have you come have a conversation with me today is the fact that much of your story revolves around not taking no for an answer. And so a little bit of that has to do with education and with community activism as well. But let’s talk a little bit about your adversity as far as academics and how you were able to overcome that. Because I know that that was a compelling part of your story when I met you in May.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:16:19.323
Well, stepping back a little bit, as you know, I got a job when I moved here, working in human resources, which was my main field. And then we started a family, my husband and I. We soon got married first, and then we started a family shortly after. And then I was traveling for work on the train. So it was at least an hour and a half of a ride. So eventually we didn’t want to do that long commute. And then I got a job that was closer to home. And then so less than two years after, we got pregnant again with twins. And so while pregnant with twins, it wasn’t a very healthy environment that I was working in. And so I ended up actually also going on bed rest. Very thankful that God answered my prayers. I had a full term, 39 and a half weeks. And one of my children, my twins born, was actually bigger than my oldest one. But with that said, working to pay for someone else to watch do childcare for my children was just not what I signed up for. And so I made the decision to become the primary caregiver for my three children who are all two and a half– two years and under, yes. And so with that said, I have all boys.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:17:37.893
And so kept them busy, kept them moving, went out. I was one of those moms that went to the store with children. And to do all of this, and I would do it all over again, it required me to put what I felt were my dreams on hold. When I went into human resources, I had this whole idea that I was going to do my master’s. I told you I’d gotten into an executive MBA program. That was my drive. I intended to go into international marketing or something related to that. And I loved doing what I was doing, interacting with people. But I could not do that wholeheartedly and do my family wholeheartedly.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:18:19.701
Because when I’m in, I’m in and I’m all in. And so knowing that I couldn’t do both well, I had to make that sacrifice. And for me, at the time, my family meant that much more. That was the reason I was even in this country. And so because of that, we had one income. We had three children, and we have our own home. And so we just, like my dad taught me, you do without until you can do better. And we just lived on less. And we brought our boys up. I was very involved in their school.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:18:52.698
I tried various ways of making money, including starting my own business, encouraging moms in their mothering so that they can mother from a place of courage instead of from fear, which is what I constantly kept meeting. But unfortunately, moms also don’t want to admit that they need help. And so I ended up having to close the business for lack of finances. But again, very involved, very, very much in their school until they then got to my twins. So my oldest is in high school, and my twins are about to finish middle school. And I decide something kept ringing in my ear that you want more. And I didn’t know what more that could be. I mean, I was very much involved with doing after school programs and chairing various committees and just even building partnerships inside as well as outside the school to provide opportunities for that. So I was good for now. I knew they were coming out, but I thought this is where I am. But just kept nagging, which essentially what I kept hearing was doing my master’s, my MBA. And I thought, okay, going going back to school, it’s too much. So I decide I’m going to do something shorter. I ended up following through with a mom organization that focused on moms who want to go back into the workforce. I did a project– a program, sorry, project management certificate through them, loved it. I thought, “Wow. If I’d known this was a thing, I could have done this before.” But then, I kept applying for jobs literally with my spreadsheet. I clocked 200 resumes being sent out every month and did not get not even one interview. And so besides frustration, I’m now wondering, “What do I do,” because part of my personality is I– if you haven’t noticed, I don’t really give up very well [laughter]. I don’t take no for an answer. Letting go of my business was really one of the hardest decisions I had to make because I just kept trying to figure out, “What else? What else? How can I reach these moms?” With that said, I didn’t know how I could find work. So again, MBA, MBA. And I thought, “How am I going to afford an MBA?” And then sure enough, in case I was wondering if I really heard God, He brought three different people, three different situations to tell me, “You should consider an MBA.” I said, “Okay. Fine. If I’m supposed to consider–” this is me and God because this is how God and I talk. This is just the relationship we have [laughter]. And so I said, “Okay. Fine. If you want me to do this MBA, you need to show me where,” because of course, everywhere has an MBA. And of course, I happened to search one of– somebody else had mentioned the name of a school. I started with that school. I started with local schools, heard the cost. And I thought, “Okay, God. Unless you have a package at the door, I don’t know.” And so I ended up calling this one school who said, “Oh. And by the way, since you’ve done so much volunteer experience as well as an education, we can cut your tuition in half by 50%.” And I thought, “Oh, okay. Well, considering the other ones were already more than their tuition and now, you’ve just cut it in half,” I thought, “Well, maybe this is the direction I should go.” So I thought, “He opens a door, you go through it. You see where it leads.” And I went through the process of applying and filling in and sending in transcripts. I mean, who has a transcript from over 20 years ago? My school. And so send all of that information in. I got in within three weeks and had time. I had three more weeks before the actual start of the class. And so I realized, “Wow, I’m actually doing this.” I mean, what is it like to actually apply for your first loan at 40-something? Yeah, I could tell you. [laughter]

Gretchen Roe: 00:22:45.625
And how old were the boys then?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:22:47.855
The boys were now– so 8th grade. 7th going into 8th grade were the twins. And then, my oldest was 9th going into 10th grade. So I always go by grades. I don’t even remember what age that is anymore [laughter], so yes, and even talking to them, explaining to them what I’m doing– because I wanted it– I wanted them to realize this was honestly the first time in their lives that they’re literally seeing me do something for me.

Gretchen Roe: 00:23:19.245
And you said that in May. And that’s one of the reasons that I wanted to have this conversation because particularly, moms that I interact with– homeschool moms, even moms who have a traditional path in their children’s education– we’re so busy putting ourselves into our kids that we forget we are valued and have personhood as well.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:23:49.240
And I think that is so key and I– everything that I’ve said, I bring this to this– bring it to this point because the reason I had been going through this whole long trip, I now realize, is because I had not been putting any attention onto me. Even trying to help these women with my business, I wanted to help everybody. And I’m trying to help everybody, but I was not trying to help me. And I would take little breaks. I’d go for a walk. I’d do little things, but to invest in me was a big issue. And then when it even came to deciding what I wanted to do, I mean, I knew the MBA because I just always wanted an MBA, but then even what to do with that. And so, the last couple of years really have been, I don’t know if soul searching is the right word, but it’s really been me and God just having some intimate time, just literally laying naked and just being like, what am I here for? I mean, yes, I have all these skills. So the skills weren’t even an issue. Because I’m a problem solver and I don’t usually take no for an answer. If you ask me to do something and I don’t know how to do it, you better believe I’m going to figure out how to do it, research it and everything, and I’m going to do it to the best of my ability, to the point that many people asked me to, can you stay? Can you keep doing this? So it wasn’t for lack of skill. It was for lack of focus or clarity. And that’s what I really needed to work out with God as I go through this journey.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:25:25.685
And so, even as I’m doing my MBA, finishing with one more term next month or next year, at the end of this year, that’s exactly what were me and God, ours. We went through this, God. We started this. I didn’t do this so I can make this an hour. I didn’t do this so I can stay home and just twiddle thumbs. There are some goals. There are some things that, because I’ve taken the time to think about it, leadership roles, managerial roles. Eventually, I would like to get to executive director or that sort of role that I’ve only come to realize through taking the time to think about me. And the fact that I absolutely love my program. I’m doing it 100% virtual. I know a lot of people can’t. I have a friend who’s a VP, and she cannot do virtual. It’s like, I don’t know how you’re doing it. She has to go in person. I’m like, I don’t know how you’re going in person because I love doing everything. I have the control and the agency to manage it. And I’m on top of it. 4.0 GPA. Yes, I have to share that. And with being a mom, a full-time mom, I’m still very much involved. All of my children are now in high school, very involved in high school, three different directions. And it’s important for me to let them know that I’m here. And that’s what I was starting to say that this whole journey, this whole turn that God presented me was a way for me to show them, first of all, it’s not all about you. I know I probably led you to believe that all these years, but it’s really not all about you. And I don’t want them to be.

Gretchen Roe: 00:26:59.282
You had said something about that when we first talked to plan this conversation. And that’s, I think, as moms, it’s hard for us to lovingly convey that to our children.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:27:15.241
Yes.

Gretchen Roe: 00:27:16.269
That the world does not turn on your dime.
Andrea Ormsby: 00:27:21.236

Exactly. And these screens, I have to say, as a mom, don’t help them, but it doesn’t even help us as adults. If you consider the adults that you know, it’s even worse for the children because their brains are still developing. And if you have boys, they develop even slower. So it really does not help them in realizing the world around them. And so if it’s not immediate, if it’s not exactly what they like, they just don’t get it. And I needed them to at least see that there’s life outside of them. And especially because they’ve always had me home, Mom, I left my lunch. I would teach them, okay, it’s going to be this one drop off, but buddy, you’re going to starve because I didn’t buy lunch at school. I made every single meal. I have– not food allergies, but food reactions in my house. So every single meal from they were born, I’ve been making from scratch, literally. And so to this day, yes, they’re older. I taught them how to make their own lunches because the sodas and the other stuff, as cheap as they are, it doesn’t help them. I also have neurodiverse children. Yes, all three of them. And so I do believe that there are certain things that they can ingest that do not help them. And because of that, it requires me to not rely as much on processed foods. It does require a whole lot of work. But all of those sacrifices doesn’t change the fact that I’m raising adults. I’m not raising children. And the point that I’m raising adults–

Gretchen Roe: 00:28:56.878
Yeah, right there, that line was what– when you said that to me when we had lunch together, I was like, that message needs to be shared because we do want to raise adults.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:29:09.825
That’s the point. I mean–

Gretchen Roe: 00:29:10.825
That’s hard. It’s hard.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:29:12.446
Culturally, and I’ve always said this to them, they know where I have a home, they have a home. I’m not one that is going to require they have to be out by a certain age. That’s just not what we practice. However, you’re also not going to sit in the basement asking, “Mom, can you turn on the Wi-Fi?” Because I do turn off the Wi-Fi. I am that mom. It’s just what it is. You can work wherever you want to work, but you also need to learn responsibility. And as neurodiverse as you are, the world is not going to leave space for you. You have to take up space so that the room for your gift can spread and can grow. If I don’t teach them that, then they sit dependent. And that’s not on my watch. That’s just not what God has charged me to do. He’s charged me to train them up in the way they should go so that when they get older, they will not depart from it. And they didn’t have a very good morning on Sunday, we’ll call it. And so they had mommy talk to them in the car, all of us in the car. And I was just laying it into them. And I said, “It is not going to be because I did not try to train you in the way you should go. When you get older, you can choose otherwise. But as long as you’re under my roof and with me, it will be where I think you should be going.” Granted, I had to remember that daddy was there. Daddy and I. I was so on a focus because I was so upset.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:30:41.356
But the point still remains that I’m responsible for what God has given me and I’m going to do my best with what God has given me. When they get older, they choose to do different. And I will say that is the absolute hardest part of parenting to let go, watch them fall because they are that stubborn because I have those, but they still have to fall. And at least what I can say to them at this point is, “If you fall, I’m still here to pick you up.” Because even building that resilience, too many of us as parents are not willing to help them learn that resilience. And the only way for them to learn is for them to fall and to get up. I remember when they first fell on the bike. “Mom, I hurt my knee.” And I was like, “Okay, buddy, brush it off.” “But it’s bleeding.” “Yeah, okay, brush it off. Do you want to ride some more or not?” I was just a different kind of approach because I didn’t want them to feel like, “I fell. Now I can’t ride ever again.” I needed them to learn how to pick back up. This world is moving too much faster and will leave them behind if they don’t learn otherwise.

Gretchen Roe: 00:31:47.602
Talk to me a little bit about recognizing that they had some unique neurodiversities. And often in parenting circles, we have parents that when they recognize their children have neurodiversities, they want to protect them from the world because of those instead of equipping them to be in the world. So can you talk a little bit more about that?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:32:12.448
So what the other part I’ll add to what you’re saying is you also have culture that does not want to acknowledge that there might be what we call a neurodiversity. Back then, it was some defect or some problem. And so I’ve always– I honestly do truly believe that I am ADHD. I’ll put it out there. The way that I’ve learned about it and the way I used to always think, the comments people used to say to me that I talked to them and then I’d go on another tangent, another tangent. They’d be like, “How did you get from that to that?” And I’m like, “Well, simple, because this and then you went to this.” And I can totally track the branches I went on. And they’re like, “I don’t understand how you think,” but that’s just how I think. And I just constantly am always thinking and focus. And even in university, I used to– I couldn’t study in the library. It was way too quiet. I could hear somebody drop a pencil on the carpet. I would hear the elevator open and close. But if I’m in a room and I have something playing in the background, it allowed me to focus. So there’s just things that I learned. My parents didn’t know anything about ADHD or neurodiversity or anything like that, let alone to test me for anything. And I had straight– I skipped first grade. They wanted me to skip second grade. I was in a split two, four class and I was doing fourth grade work. It was easy for me. I just ended up learning my own tools.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:33:41.301
So having that understanding and foundation for myself, having my children, seeing how they were approaching things, I actually very seriously considered– and people will say I homeschooled. I don’t take that title because I highly regard homeschool moms. I didn’t feel confident to do it full time. I heavily supplemented, I will say, but I just couldn’t bite the bullet. With that said, because I was heavily supplementing them, I was training them, I was teaching them, I was doing all kinds of things with them, very active with them. And so even when they went to school, I was there, not just volunteering in the class. There were children that thought I was a teacher because I was so involved in the school, in classrooms, in helping teachers, in administration, in the board. I mean, everything, all the gamut, including starting programs. And so when I was given the idea that one of my twins might be neurodiverse, I was taken aback. What do you mean? And gave me all the reasons that I knew. But again, I had already accepted him. That’s just how he is. That’s just how he learns. So when you’re calling this label, no, we don’t sign up for labels because automatically– and I know this is true in some schools, they want to make it easier. He’s not really focusing the way we want him to, or he’s not sitting the way we– I would take my children to a library readalong, and they would be climbing the chairs that are stacked up around the edges. And I just knew that’s what they were.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:35:20.408
When I would sit there with a book with all three of them sitting there in the middle of the room, I’d be reading, there’d literally be one running laps. But after the book, and I say to you, what did you learn? Or what was the story about? Verbatim, that child could tell me exactly what it was. And so I just learned to adapt. So when I saw this teacher who wasn’t willing to adapt, automatically, I’m like, “Okay, you’re not supporting what we’re trying to do.” Granted, I did see some of the concerns she had brought up, decided, “Okay, if I don’t at least follow what their suggestions are, then if there’s any problems forward, then I’m going to be blamed for being the irresponsible parent.” Went through all of the testing and that sort of thing, and he did test positive for what we were testing for. So now what we’re going to do? Already decided we’re not doing medicine. Okay. So we need to figure out how we’re going to adjust. I was blessed to be able to have my children in a smaller size school where literally all the parents, all the teachers knew myself and my husband. And so even before we got an official diagnosis, they were able to accommodate. I guess there were official accommodations for some of the children. They just said, “Oh, he’s fine. He just needs this and this and this. He’d go to another grade.” These teachers would talk and say, “Oh, yes, we understand him. He just needs to do this and this.” And so it was good for him. With my other children, I would see certain things and I would ask certain questions, but certain teachers would say, “Oh, no, he’s fine. Oh, he’s just this.” Because they just accepted our family the way that they were. We were very involved, all of us. And so it only became an issue when my oldest, actually, because the one who tested is one of the twins. So my oldest now was having trouble with writing and writing essays. And it was a volunteer parent who was there subbing long term and suggested, “Just to clear the air, maybe you might want to consider testing.” Come to find out, he ended up having a reading challenge, a learning disability. And it really floored me because the first one I struggled with even accepting many nights I cried because it’s not only now what? And now he has this label and now what are people going to think about him? Because remember, I’m still in protection mode as mom, but I’m also culturally ashamed. I can’t really talk about it.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:37:51.621
And if I do, they’re still not going to even understand because crazy people go and get mental health issues and need help from that perspective. And it was always shunned down upon. And so none of them, I didn’t have anybody to talk with about it. And so now I have one that I’m like, “Okay, maybe maybe there’s an issue, but then nobody was observing it. Nobody was acknowledging it.” And so I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned with all of my children, and yes, my third one as well, is you know your child. A lot of times we as moms don’t trust ourselves. There’s a thing they call mom’s intuition. And it gets bad rep. It’s so cliche. I strongly, as I said, I believe in my relationship with Christ. And I do believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to me and I recognize His voice. And so if it wasn’t for that, I wouldn’t have even trusted what I was observing and trusted. I told you I didn’t homeschool because I didn’t even trust myself. With that said, I was very much trusting that God made them exactly how they’re supposed to be. And I very much trusted that, okay, even when I don’t have all that I think I need to do what they need, he will give me the rest. The only reason that we are surviving right now on one income, by the way, is because he’s doing the rest. And so a lot of it, I did myself, hard worker, problem solver, we already know. So it was not easy, hugely challenging. I think if I had to do it again, I would have loved to have found who my people were. By that, I mean a support network. So for example, I went to a mom’s group when my twins were younger and all of these women were talking about sleepless nights and how difficult it was to get their babies to start sleeping. My twins weren’t even a year. I still had my oldest who was two years old at this point. And I said, “Yeah, sleepless nights, it’s tough.” And they all looked at me like, “But you have twins.” And automatically, I got put on this pedal still and nobody was talking anymore. And nobody could relate to me anymore. So now I couldn’t even share and have someone to bounce ideas off of because now I’m literally on a different– so even amongst moms, we end up separating.

Gretchen Roe: 00:40:27.888
We need not, we need to listen.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:40:31.957
Correct.

Gretchen Roe: 00:40:32.363
But we need to listen and encourage with our pigeonholing people, if you will.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:40:37.131
Correct.

Gretchen Roe: 00:40:38.051
We’re almost concluded for our time together, which I kind of regret because I’m really having a good time, but closing thoughts. What are your closing thoughts for our listeners today?

Andrea Ormsby: 00:40:50.151
I would definitely remind you we’re raising adults. Really think about the adult that you are trying to raise. Now, know that you can raise them one way and they can completely go on a different branch.

Gretchen Roe: 00:41:05.756
And that doesn’t mean you didn’t do a terrific job.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:41:08.183
Correct. Correct. And so you’re not responsible for how they end up. You are responsible for what you can do while they are still in your care. And what that looks like is different for different people. And it’s okay. But also give yourself grace. Because you cannot take the place of God, or you cannot take the place of everyone around you that you wish was involved, or you just can’t. There’s only so much you can do and commit to that and be all in. And it’s so cliche to say enjoy them while they’re with you. Believe me, enjoy them while they’re with you. I am so grateful that I had the time to be focused on them. I didn’t have to fight with an employer or getting leave time or any of the sick days, whatever it was. And my children even didn’t even get sick very often. But the fact that I was able to be there when I could, for those of you who can’t as much as you want, completely get it. Do not feel guilty. You’re doing your best. Talk with them. Talk with them. Gosh, I have so many closing remarks. When are you going to stop? Talk with them. Please talk with them. Spend time as uncomfortable as it is. I told my children what the body parts were and the right names right from when they were younger. Talk with them. They can handle it. Trust me. Believe you me. Because if they’re not talking with you, I promise. And from much earlier than you think, they are going to talk with other people and you won’t even realize it. But if you do that consistent communication with them, it lays a foundation that even as they get older, they will remember. Even when you don’t think they’re listening, they do remember.

Gretchen Roe: 00:42:55.682
That’s right. That is very true. I have to say I don’t think we were given full disclosure at how fast the time would go.

Andrea Ormsby: 00:43:08.514
And be that example. Live for yourself too. Don’t forget yourself. Don’t put all your eggs into the basket for them. You need some eggs for your basket and grow it.

Gretchen Roe: 00:43:18.372
Right. That is very true. Eggs for your basket as well as others. I want to thank everyone who’s joined us today. You can see why I thought Andrea would be such a compelling conversation because she brings so much rich information. There’ll be more information for you in the show notes, so I’ll recommend that you access those.

Voice Over: 00:43:42.085
Thanks again for joining us. We’re glad to be a part of your educational community. You can help us grow our community even more by rating, reviewing, and subscribing to the show wherever you may be hearing this. Don’t forget that you can access the show notes and watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show or on our YouTube channel. We’ll see you again next time. Until then, keep building strong foundations for lifelong learning.

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