[00:00:00] Jennifer Henn: Things weren’t always fun at home. There could have been a lot more joy at home. I think I was just this really intuitive child, maybe a little more than others, because I would look at other families, and I look at our families, and I’d think it’s different. “I want mine like that, or when I grow up and have kids, I want it to be like that.”

[music]

[00:00:27] Gretchen Roe: Good afternoon, everyone. This is Gretchen Roe, and it’s my very great pleasure to welcome you to this episode of The Demme Learning Show. I am so excited to have Jennifer Henn join me today for this conversation. This conversation started back last July/August timeframe at a homeschool conference in Atlanta. We were talking about kids and how the goal of academics is still the same, but the children we’re educating are different. Those of us who are sitting across the table educating them are different as well. We really want you to join us for this conversation today. Now, Jennifer, would you be so kind as to introduce yourself?

[00:01:13] Jennifer: Yes, thank you so much. My heart for homeschooling started when I was so young. My story is like many others. I had learning disabilities that were never diagnosed. I was passed along, passed along, and the things that were spoken over me were not great, “Lazy, if she would just apply herself,” et cetera. Then, “ta-da,” once they passed me through elementary, I flunked math and language in 7th grade. Things did not go well for me. I went to a one-room schoolhouse for a year and a half.

Then I went back to public school, and I’m sure the leaders in the one-room schoolhouse, a little church school, were not really sad to see me go, but they didn’t know what to do with me either. I went back to high school, but somewhere in that, because middle school isn’t that fun, I learned to be a little nicer. Okay. Be a little easier to get along with Jennifer. I do believe they just passed me. They’re like, “Oh, yes, she’ll never do anything. She’ll just get married and have kids.” They passed me, and I graduated.

It was about two years after I had been out of high school that I really did start to think that maybe I was smart. I have dyslexia, some processing issues, and other learning disabilities that were never caught. The whole system of school made me feel like I didn’t have a future anywhere, made me feel like I was dumb. When I got out of school, and everything I touched was successful, I started thinking maybe I’m not dumb.

Back as a little girl who was so ashamed, so ashamed that she couldn’t keep up in the classroom, I made this little vow where I’d play house with my dolls and stuffed animals. I’m like, “When I have children, I’m going to keep them in the home with me, and I’ll never send them to school.” I never wanted my children to go through what I went through. Then the other thing, going to this topic a little bit today, was things weren’t always fun at home. There could have been a lot more joy at home.

I think I was just this really intuitive child, maybe a little more than others, because I would look at other families, and I look at our families, and I think, it’s different. “I want mine like that. When I grow up and have kids, I want it to be like that.” We were a latchkey kid. We lived way out in the boonies. My mom’s like, “Enough of this.” She commuted and had a job. My brother and I got ourselves ready in the morning and got on the school bus. Then we came home. We were alone again. Alone a lot. Home during the summer break, during Christmas break. We were home alone a lot.

The other thing that drove me, I’m driven to not send my kids to school to have an experience like I have. I’m driven to have a relationship with my kids, and hang out, and have fun with my kids. Homeschooling, even though it was really radical when I first heard about it, but I was like, “Oh, it is a thing.” I was single, had moved to Atlanta for a career in the travel industry, which was fabulous. I always wanted to stay at home with my kids.

My husband and I, even when we had premarital counseling, we had an agreement that I would stay home, at least for the first few years when our children were young. I was scared to death to start. Ladies, I get it. My family was giving me the side eye, like, “You’re going to homeschool?” I was reading some books on it. I was listening. I was learning as much as I could. I would say the thing that made me start it was just the love for my children, and that I wanted to give them something different.

Now, I know people homeschool for different reasons, but some of my story and some of the things I learned that I’m going to share with you today, I just want you to know that that’s where I started. I started from, “I want change from how it was when I grew up.” I feel so privileged that I was able to do that.

[00:05:32] Gretchen: That’s really awesome. I don’t think I made those kinds of intentional decisions. I became a homeschool parent because of what I didn’t want, not what I wanted. I always admire people who were conscious enough to recognize what they wanted and then push toward that. I think, no matter where we are in our homeschooling experiences, that’s important to recognize what you do want.

I often say from stage when parents are beginning a homeschool journey, and I know you have talked about beginning a homeschool journey for 12, 13, 14 years now, it’s important to figure out what you want. If you’re only doing it for what you don’t want, when the going gets tough, you’ll give up.

[00:06:20] Jennifer: Oh, that is– I’ve been teaching Homeschooling 101 for 12 years. I taught my first workshop in 2007. I’ve been helping others to homeschool for a very long time. In my Homeschooling 101, I do have a place where I stop, and I say, “Okay, I want you to write down your why. I have it in my handout.” I go, “Okay, maybe not right now, but before this weekend is out, while all this homeschooling is fresh, I want you to sit down with your spouse. I want you to write down your why, because when the going gets tough, I want you to go back to this because you’ll forget.” Why are we doing this? This is so hard.

One of mine was to have a better relationship with my kids. What is this going to look like? That’s what I wanted to share today, a little bit of my story. I’ve taught a class several times. Actually, I taught it for a few years and hardly anybody ever came. Then I changed the title. That’s all I had to do. I changed the title to Stop Fighting With Your Kids, and everybody swarmed in.

[laughter]

[00:07:30] Gretchen: Oh, because there is that moment of clarity when you think, “I’m the only one who ever argues with my children. Everybody else has these idyllic relationships with their kids. It’s just me.” That’s not true.

[00:07:47] Jennifer: It’s not true. If you just want me to start in on some of the three points,-

[00:07:54] Gretchen: Absolutely, let’s do it.

[00:07:55] Jennifer: -I could talk on relationships with your kids and give examples all day. I’ll just start with don’t play favorites now.

[00:08:04] Gretchen: Man, that’s a big one.

[00:08:07] Jennifer: Kids will have a different point of view. You take a family with five children, and it’s like you’re doing an investigation. Some incident happened, and you ask everyone. That’s true with detectives. When there’s a crime on the street, they don’t want collaboration. They want to go to each person because each person has a different point of view. It’s for your child’s personality. Their point of view is going to be different. Some are going to say you’re fair or, “Oh, you always favor the little sister,” or whatever. As much as you can, make sure that you’re not playing favorites because the truth of the matter is some kids are easier than others.

[00:08:43] Gretchen: Sometimes kids have the misperception that you favorite the one who causes the least amount of trouble.

[00:08:52] Jennifer: Yes. It’s tempting. They don’t feel that way because let’s say even one of your children– For instance, one of mine, his love language, gifts of service. He’s 30, and he still is the most unbelievable worker you ever met. Even his brother recently said that about him. The thing is, if I ask him to do something, he would do it every time. There were a couple of times he’d point out to me, “Mom, are you only asking me to do stuff?” It’s like, “Oh, I need to, even though the others might give me some pushback, and it’s going to take longer, and I’m going to have to do this parenting thing.”

Then helping the siblings to understand each other. When they’re immature, they’re not going to understand. Your sister’s five years younger than you. No, the expectation isn’t the same. Just be aware. Be as fair as you can. The one who’s maybe giving you the most grief, I’ll put it that way– The one who’s giving you the most grief, sometimes they just need 10, 15 extra minutes with you. This was the best advice I’d ever gotten from Sally Clarkson, Educating the Whole Hearted Child, and many other books.

I tried it. I’m going to take the child who seems to be– I’m not even going to put a term on it, not the instigator or whatever, but the one who’s struggling the most maybe to be obedient, and spending 15 extra minutes with that child or their love language. I love little kids. I love how easy they are. A seven-year-old, “I came out from the grocery store and I saw this candy bar when I was checking out, and I thought of you and I got you this candy bar,” or you don’t have gum. “Oh, I know you love this gum. Have this gum and a little extra time.”

These aren’t spoiling things. These are you thinking ahead of, “How can I encourage?” Make sure that as the day goes or as the day starts that you’re encouraging each one of your children and if one of your kids, you’re having a hard thing encouraging them in, even if they pet the cat nicely or let the dog out, say, “That was so nice the way you petted the cat, so nice. Oh, thank you for letting the dog out for us.”

Can anyone be encouraged too much? Can young children, can any people– If it’s genuine, I’m not saying be fake, but I’m saying lift the spirits so you’re not playing favorites and you’re seeing, though, what you can do to encourage each one of them equally. Not so much what you do for someone, but you’re encouraging. I realized I completely forgot, in my introduction, to tell you all about my kids. Hello, what mom doesn’t talk about her kids.

[00:11:51] Gretchen: I was going to actually force you into that in a minute, but I didn’t want to interrupt your flow.

[00:11:57] Jennifer: Do you know how scary it is to come and talk about raising kids because you can all go, “Let’s get the skinny on this. We’re going to ask their kids.” Well, I’ve actually been in the Atlanta area in the Southeast Homeschool Expo for a long time. My sons started working for the Expo, helping the vendors, helping with sound and things like that, since they were 14 and 16. They would come into my workshops a lot of times and say hello, so people could meet them, and they’d see them out and around on the floor.

My daughter has been helping me for years with my booth. Last year, we did our first session together. This year, she’s going to do her first lone session.

[00:12:38] Gretchen: Awesome.

[00:12:39] Jennifer: My oldest has the same learning disabilities as me. Sorry, son, a lot of this is inherited. Your kids are a lot like you. My oldest is 30. One of the things, because I knew for me, I knew, “Just wait, it gets easier as you get older. It gets easier as you get older.” A dream thing for a mother is last year, he said, “Mom, I want to come to the Expo, and I want to talk to the people. I want to tell them I made it. I want to tell them it’s going to be okay.” That coming from him versus coming from me is so wonderful. His first child was due the week of the Expo, so he couldn’t come. Excuse me.

[00:13:22] Gretchen: I think he had a little bit of a higher priority there.

[00:13:24] Jennifer: A little bit of a higher priority. My first grandchild, so I have one grandchild. I’m so excited. He married the lovely Julia. That’s Isaac, married lovely Julia. Julia was homeschooled. She married a homeschool family. He’s excited to one day homeschool his children. He was like, “Mom, are you going to help me to know how to parent? Mom, are you going to help me to know how to homeschool?” I said, “Well, I’ve learned a lot, and I keep learning, so I think I’ll be even a better homeschool mom later.”

Then my son, who’s two years younger, he also wants to homeschool his children. Right there, I feel like I graduated. That’s my graduation. I always said I wanted well-adjusted adults that can go into this society, get along, have jobs, have friends, all those things. Joshua was having some roommate things going on and a serious relationship with a girl. A year ago, last December, we said, “You want to just move in for a while and save your money?” Sure enough, he’s been here a year, and he did get engaged. He’ll be married in the end of March. We’re all so excited.

We got to know his fiancé so well because they were both here a lot. We have had so much fun. I think when he moved out, in his early 20’s, it was like, “Go.” We used to say about the boys, they both need a really good dose of roommates. When my husband and I first moved to Atlanta and worked, we had roommates. We knew, like, “Go have a good dose.” My oldest actually came back one time after, I don’t know, several months of his first. He’d moved out with some guys from work.

He goes, “I need to apologize because I know I left my stuff laying around all the time.” I’m like, “Yes, you did. Apology accepted. The roommate thing is working, right?” Didn’t know what it was going to be like with Joshua moving back in. He’s an adult. He’s 28. His fiancé is absolutely adorable. We’ve had so much fun. Then my oldest, when they had his baby, his wife was working some on the weekend. He and I spent a lot of time taking care of the little grandbaby together.

I don’t want people to think that I’m going to come and talk about this, and that I didn’t have a great relationship with my kids. My oldest, 30, has the same learning disabilities that I had. I can’t even tell you what he does on his job. It is incredible what he’s doing because all these kids have strengths. We have our strengths, and he is working in his strengths. He has an amazing job.

My next son is going to be more of the entrepreneur. He’s worked for a lot of small companies. He’s a jack-of-all-trades. The oldest, school was really hard. The second one, school was really easy. A lot of times the second child is the polar opposite of the first. Then my daughter is on the spectrum. She’s high functioning autism.

[00:16:30] Gretchen: Delightful.

[00:16:31] Jennifer: Yes. We did that talk last year together. We called it Our Neurodiverse Story, Mother, Daughter. She’s coming back. She told me, “Mom, you know what the title to my talk is going to be that I’m going to do?” She goes, “I hope you won’t be upset.” I’m like, “Give it to me.” She said, “I’ve titled it What I Wish My Mom Knew About Anxiety.” I said, “Perfect,” because I’ve never dealt with anxiety. I’ve had to learn a lot of things.

A lot of the moms at the Expo did have questions about anxiety. She lives at home. She works 30 hours a week. She has a fabulous job. She still lives at home with us. Probably will be for a while longer, but we bake together, we cook together, we go on trips together. We just laugh a lot. That’s where we ended. Over the years, we had a lot of honest and sometimes hard conversations.

[00:17:33] Gretchen: You chose to homeschool them all the way through, correct?

[00:17:37] Jennifer: Yes, except I got severely ill. My second and my third child went into public school for two years. This is so important, because everybody thinks that the solution would be public school or someplace else is easier or better. Georgia didn’t even have language remediation when my son was young. I definitely did the best thing with dyslexic, keeping him home. He went in, and his math teacher, they put him in the class with a lot of troubled students, desk-throwing, book-throwing, teacher that told them that he didn’t want to be there and didn’t want to teach the class.

He gave my son a B all the way through, but my son kept saying, “I’m learning nothing, I’m learning nothing, I’m learning nothing in 7th-grade math.” We could not send him another year. We’d had a tutor to do. He stayed at home, and he took classes, and we had a tutor to do his math. The others went for two years, and I thought that’s going to be it. They won’t want to come home. We’re done.

I was severely ill. It was very traumatic. In fact, I spent time at the Mayo Clinic, and they said I should have died, but I didn’t. My recovery was long. That did even make us a more tight-knit family.

[00:19:05] Gretchen: It peels away the layers of the onion to make you understand what’s really important. That relationship, obviously, with your children was one of those really important things.

[00:19:18] Jennifer: Another thing it did is the way I homeschooled. I ended up doing workshops and homeschooling. I was drug into that. My mentor was, and I didn’t even know it when I first signed on to get help from her, was the owner of the Southeast Homeschool Expo in Atlanta.

[00:19:38] Gretchen: I was going to say, maybe not drug, but if Randi wanted you to do something, you were going to do it. [laughs]

[00:19:47] Jennifer: I had three meetings with her, going, “Me? Why? How come?” I had the hardest time believing in myself, and that is with struggling students. When you go through 13 years of school, of being pushed down, pushed down, told you’re not enough, told you’re wrong, nobody expecting anything of you, for someone to go, “You do this really well, you need to come tell other people,” I’m like, “What? Me?” Now I forgot where I was going with that.

[00:20:17] Gretchen: Randi gave you the opportunity to have the ability to sow into other families’ lives, and now look where you are. You’re doing that on a regular basis with a variety of families and in a variety of venues. You’re getting to see families who homeschool from all sorts of different perspectives, but then you get to offer them support so they can continue their journeys, and that’s really valuable.

[00:20:45] Jennifer: Yes. Randi always told me, “Your kids are great, they’re fine,” but we want to go back to that solid what we know. You know what? When we get fearful, when we get worried, what do we know? If you were in a traditional classroom, whether it was private school or public school, all of a sudden, you think, “This is what it should look like.” Especially husbands can struggle with, “This is what it should look like.”

Here I am doing a fabulous job of homeschooling, but not believing it myself. Randi said, “No, your kids can walk into any public school and succeed.” I refused to believe her. Guess what happened? All three of my kids walked into public school, and they were all in the honor roll. They were all in groups and clubs, had friends. Like I said, with Isaac, he did not learn math for the whole year, so we couldn’t keep him in. All my kids went in and they did succeed. They did very well with the way that I homeschooled.

It does not have to look like the classroom. That’s what I want to do, Gretchen, is I want to unburden parents if that is one thing that I can do today. Let’s go back to what we were talking about. I said, don’t play favorites. Then I also want to mention a mutual respect, and this one can be hard. I never had a voice when I was a child. Even if my parents were 100% wrong, I was not allowed to say a word. We, in homeschooling, we are with our kids. I say, “We are parenting at large because it’s all day long.”

There is this balance of my kids need to know that I am the final authority, but at the same time, I need to have the humility to listen. I remember when my sons were 10, 11, I wondered when they would be taller than me. I thought maybe they’ll be taller than me at 13. They were taller than me at 12. They are 6’4″ and 6’3″. You can imagine, by the time they were in high school, I’m looking up at them like this.

I was sowing the seeds so long before. People are waiting way too long to wonder how to parent. They’re like, “Oh, they’re 11. I’m ready to go to a parenting class now.” It’s like, “No, I sowed the seeds of mutual respect way before.” One of the stories I love to tell is I lost it with one of my teen sons one day. I mean, the Holy Spirit was telling me to shut up, but I wasn’t. I was letting him have it. I was spewing at this child. He was standing there taking it. His brother, standing over here, maybe listening to the Holy Spirit, but his brother’s going, “Mom, mother, mom.”

Then I stopped because my son was allowed to have a respectful voice. The reason why he was doing that is because he knew that wasn’t my normal. “I’m going to help mom out in this moment. Mom’s lost it.” We did have a mutual respect. A lot of that also came from me asking forgiveness when I did it wrong. It started when they were young that they had to obey. We would go to the store, and when they misbehaved, I would haul them all the way back out to the car.

If you’re going to go to Target, if you’re going to go to Walmart, and you’re going to know that today is going to be about getting what we need and training, and it may take me three times as long as I want, but they are going to– I always told them to be a blessing to others, and I was able to take them with me anywhere. If we went to the park, and they were being naughty with other kids, and I said, “Do that again, and we’re all going home,” even though sometimes, “But mom, I didn’t do it. She didn’t do it.”

“Do it again, and we’re all going home.”

I remember having women sit on the park bench and look at me going, “We can’t believe you’re leaving.” I’m like, “We’re leaving.” Because when we do that: threaten, repeat, threaten, repeat, we’re asking our kids to gamble. They never know if we’re going to follow through.

[00:25:28] Gretchen: Do you mean what you say?

[00:25:30] Jennifer: Do you mean what you say? If you have one of those risk-taker kids, and let me tell you, risk-takers are the ones that change the world. We need those strong-willed risk-taker kids. Love those kids, but when you threaten, repeat, and don’t follow through, they disrespect you. Actually, it’s really a way for them to respect you that you keep your word, because are you lying, and are you asking them to gamble?

We could talk about this for a long time, but that is a huge way, when they’re little, how you start getting respect. When mom says, “You are going to buy in-store, or we’re going to go to the car, and then we’re going to sit for a while, or whatever it is that you do, and then we’re going to go back.”

[00:26:17] Gretchen: Absolutely. Yes, makes a difference. Now, you had said that you wanted to talk about rebuilding trust in a safe learning space. I thought this was such an interesting point of view as far as a question to ask. What do you do when you feel those walls come up? Because I know that my children had walls, because I had walls. I’m a good German kid. If you tell me I have to do something, I’m not going to do it just because you told me I had to. Is that nature or nurture for my children? I don’t know. I did raise six kids who were that way as well. How do we parent that? How do we parent when the walls come up?

[00:27:12] Jennifer: Homeschooling is a job. We need to treat it as a job. It’s a job where I want you to have fun, but then you also need to have some structure that will help them. What brought you to the place? I have some notes here. Rebuilding trust when the walls go, especially with kids with learning disabilities, I think was one of the original questions. All the things that I just said, keeping your word, but a biggie is that when we are frustrated as parents, and we’re not sure what the next step is, when they’re not getting it done, we’re not sure what their motive is.

I really would get in trouble when I wanted to guess their motive. We can see what their actions are. My oldest, honestly, at times, came to me later and says, “Mom, you are wrong.” You said I did that because of this, but I didn’t. I think some personalities struggle with this more, and I’m going to admit it, I think mine struggles with it a little bit more. How arrogant of me to think that I absolutely know the motive, and I don’t. When I’ve done that, I have to ask forgiveness for it. Being humble is the number one thing, and letting your kids speak into you and have that voice, and putting that relationship first. I had a scenario with my daughter one time, and I was angry. She knew I was angry, and I was sitting there, and I paused for the longest time because this conversation was going on in my head. The conversation was, “What is the most important thing?” She was in 7th grade. “What is the most important thing right now?”

I went back to the memory. I said, “Remember your why?” What’s my most important thing? I went back to my relationship with my daughter. What is this worst-case scenario? I think what we do is we run these worst-case scenarios through our mind. One, we might have too much on our plate. Is it a homeschool hybrid we’re going to, a homeschool co-op? The pressures are just coming on you of all the things that need to get done, especially those kids with learning disabilities.

I’m here to tell you my number one thing to say with that was they take time. You homeschool so you can give a custom private education. It’s not a free education, but homeschooling is a custom private education. Then we tend to too quickly slip into, “We will follow this model. We will get all of the things done.” Touching them, like your team, when you’ve had it out with them. I know they’re a team boy, I know they’re 12, 13. Sit next to them on the couch. If they move away, they don’t want you to sit on the couch; sit next to them anyway. Reach your arm over and start rubbing your hands on their hair. Don’t stay mad.

That’s another thing. When they do something wrong, don’t stay mad. Just be ready to give the grace that you want, and this wise amount of letting go. I’m not even sure if I’m answering this question. I feel like I’m telling you all these things. There’s a wise amount of letting go, and those kids with learning struggles, make sure they have an area to succeed. Everyone needs an area to succeed.

[00:30:41] Gretchen: You’re not going to teach to their deficits. You’re going to teach to their strengths. That makes such an enormous difference. That has been apparent because your children have been successful. Allowing them to reach for their own strengths, you’ve encouraged them to find those strengths, even though in a traditional academic environment, those strengths might not have been identified for them.

[00:31:12] Jennifer: It takes time. See, Gretchen, this is what I mean by I want to unburden you. I didn’t understand, maybe it was 5th, 6th grade with my oldest. He needs a year and a half to complete what would be one level of math. My daughter, when she was just in 2nd grade, I discovered that if we did math two or three days in a row and then took break from math for a couple of days and then revisited math, that’s what her brain needed. Later, through her testing, found out she has a profound math disability. Thank goodness she was my third. I also wanted to have a no-tears homeschool. That was one of my first beginning things was no one will ever cry in my school.

[00:31:55] Gretchen: Oh, now, come on. You mean to tell me, Jennifer, you never cried? [laughs]

[00:32:00] Jennifer: You know I did. See, when I made that, I never thought I would be like me. Why would I cry? Bald my eyes out before. I didn’t want my kids to cry. That was rare. It was rare. I think it was the minute my daughter started to cry over math, I’m like, “Okay, take a break.” That was the best thing I could have said was take a break. When they’re getting older, their hormones are changing, they’re struggling with so much. Again, little kids, young kids, everybody wants to be able to do their schoolwork and do it well. Nobody wants to not do a good job. I really believe that.

I remember, in 1st grade, standing in the classroom and not having a clue what was going on. At six years old, looking around, going, “Everybody gets it but me,” and it feels shameful. Homeschooling gives us this opportunity to take our time, but finding those strengths. My daughter, flashcards on the computer that have different things that transferred on and off, for whatever reason, that would distract the heck out of my other child, but that’s what worked for her when she had to memorize science terms and memorize things.

My son, it worked better to do a concentration game with index cards and turn them all over and have to match the vocabulary word with the definition, but it takes time because if you’ve like, “I have to get to six subjects today, and we are going to move from this to this to this to this,” you might not even have the opportunity to find what your child’s strengths are. You’re going to start rebuilding by talking and listening and follow through. Sometimes, as moms, we’re busy too, so don’t have too much on our plate and walk in reality.

I have a coach that said, “Reality always wins, Jennifer. You always have too much planned. You have too much planned and reality will kick your rear. It always wins.” Sometimes in homeschooling, it’s the same thing is going on. We think we have to do all the things, and you don’t. Your kids do not peak in high school. Who peaked in high school? I didn’t peak in high school at all. Do you have to teach your kids all the things? What if they go to college and they don’t know something as well? Then you’re going to get a tutor. They’re going to figure it out.

[00:34:27] Gretchen: One of the things, I think, that’s really important for parents to understand is, in the process of educating them, you’re teaching them how to learn. You’re not teaching them everything. You’re teaching them how to learn for themselves. Sometimes we get the misapprehension that home education should look just like a public education. Well, if it should look just like a public education, why are you going to all this trouble?

[00:34:55] Jennifer: Our kids are a lot like us. Look at yourself, parents. Like with me, was there dyslexia in the family? Yes, there is. Things like that. You have an opportunity to teach, like I said, to your child. I think they’re still in the homeschool movement. We want to go from one to the other. Honestly, as human beings, we always want to swing this way. Swing that way. It’s the same with parenting. You’re going to swing this way, and you’re going to do all the assignments, and then you’re going to get fed up.

Be careful not to swing this way because you do need to be doing some schoolwork. You do need to be figuring it out, but there could be a wise amount of letting go. The same with discipline, disciplining our kids.

[00:35:46] Gretchen: Jennifer, in the takeaway, I think I want to remind our guests today, one, you can’t do it all. Two, the relationship with your child is paramount. Three, you need a friend. Four, you need the opportunity to recognize that this is a relationship that will span beyond the academic years, and you really want to sow into that relationship. I love everything that you have said today. I want to thank you so much. Any other closing thoughts for our guests today?

[00:36:26] Jennifer: I guess I just think about teenagers. Just think about it as that you’re working from this parent-child to parent-adult-child. Keep thinking, “Okay, we’re moving towards being adult friends,” and enjoy it.

[00:36:45] Gretchen: Some of the days last a very long time, but I’ll promise you, I know you will say the same, the years pass very swiftly.

[00:36:52] Jennifer: Oh, the years pass so swiftly.

[00:36:54] Gretchen: They did indeed. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today. It was really terrific. I hope our audience got as much out of this as we did. I really enjoyed our conversation, and I will look forward to you joining me again sometime soon. Take care.

[00:37:09] Jennifer: Oh, thank you. Bye.

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