Kathleen Calabrese: 00:00:00.287
We sometimes have people ask us the question, “Well, what percent should they get right on the test before they move on?” And what we say is, well, we don’t want to look at it that way. And the reason you don’t look at it that way is because if your child gets the same four types of problems wrong in each lesson, they’re not understanding that concept. That’s why they keep getting those lessons wrong. So if you’re just looking for an 85% or a 90%, your child’s not understanding something, and they’re moving forward. And now you may have missed a concept.

Gretchen Roe: 00:00:39.000
Hello, everyone. Welcome to The Demme Learning Show. This is Gretchen Roe, and we are so excited to have you join us today after this little hiatus that we have had. Thank you all for bearing with us. The aftermath of Helen has been an adventure for those of us here in Western North Carolina. And then we had the privilege of being together last week as a company, as we shared together annually. So I think we’re all pretty energized after those conversations. And now we’re here to have this conversation with you all today about what happens when your child is struggling with math. And I’m going to let my panelists introduce themselves today, and then we’re going to get into the meat of the matter. So let’s play alphabet. Kathleen, I’ll start with you.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:01:29.027
My name is Kathleen Calabrese, and I work in customer service for Demme Learning. I homeschooled my own children for 21 years, and I did use Math-U-See for all 21 years. My oldest is now– he’s graduated, and he’s working out in the financial field. And my youngest is also graduated. And he is in college doing very well.

Lisa Chimento: 00:01:51.434
I’m Lisa Chimento. I am a placement and support specialist here at Demme Learning. I’ve been working with the company full time for a little over seven years. My husband and I homeschooled our four children for 25 years. And we also used Math-U-See with all four kids. They are all grown and out of the house now. And it is a pleasure to be here and answer some of these really important questions. We’re really glad you’re here with us.

Gretchen Roe: 00:02:18.815
I have to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that today I asked these two ladies because they are so adept at having the kind of in-depth conversations that really peel the layers of the onion back to figure out where the struggles are. And the genesis of this conversation was actually a conversation I had with Kathleen a couple of months ago. And we realized that this is something that is sort of the elephant in the room sitting next to you on the sofa that we don’t always talk about. So Kathleen, can you give us a little bit of insight into why you thought this conversation would be important for our parents?

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:03:00.367
Sure. So as I said, I work in customer service, and we often receive phone calls from families where they have a child who’s struggling, whether it’s because they’re using another curriculum and then they’re calling to see if Math-U-See will be the right fit for them, or if they’re in Math-U-See and they still have a child who’s struggling. And we provide support to them to be able to help. I myself had one child who did struggle with math. So I know what it’s like. I know the anxiety that you feel as a parent and how your desire is just to help your child. Many times we don’t even know why our children are struggling, and the majority of the time your child can’t tell you why they’re struggling. They don’t know what’s wrong. They just know math is hard, or, “I don’t understand the way I’m being taught different things.” But they can’t tell tell you, “Hey, Mom, it’s because I don’t have my facts mastered.” They don’t know. They just know it’s difficult. So we’re here today to provide hopefully some helpful tips to help you to figure out first why is your child struggling, what the issue is, and then hopefully some solutions that will help you to get your child back on the right path.

Gretchen Roe: 00:04:24.665
I think one of the most important things to recognize is when a child struggles mathematically, very likely a parent has as well. So you may be coming to sit down to the table with your children already full of anxiety. I was that parent. I was that parent who felt mathematically incapable of teaching my children and I thought I had the perfect homeschool solution. I was going to put him in a co-op. And that was going to be the solution until the third kid was out of sequence for the co-op. And frankly, that’s what drove me toward Math-U-See. I had used a variety of curricula. I didn’t realize that I was going to learn as much alongside my students as my students would learn. And I won’t say today that I love math. You’re never going to– I mean, you couldn’t pay me to make that sentence. [laughter] But what you can make– what I will say over and over and over again is Math-U-See gave me the confidence to be able to teach my children and teach them well. Both of these ladies chose Math-U-See right out of the gate and made a wise choice.

Gretchen Roe: 00:05:34.069
And I want to qualify, if you haven’t made that choice, it’s okay. I didn’t come to Math-U-See until my third child was in pre-algebra. But I needed to unlock why math was a daily frustration for both of us. So if you see that in yourself or your child, we’re here to outline what some of those reasons might be. So Lisa, I wonder if you might be able to help our parents understand the single key component to Math-U-See about mastery being so critical to success. You gave us some great words when we planned this session. And I wondered if you could talk about why it’s so important for a parent to engage in this process alongside their child.

Lisa Chimento: 00:06:24.364
Yes. Absolutely. I’ve heard the word mastery thrown around a lot. There is an additional element that Math-U-See uses. And it’s the sequence that is so unique to Math-U-See. It doesn’t follow a typical grade-based course where they’re teaching a little bit about a lot of different concepts every year. Instead, we are deep-diving into concepts. And the reason for that is because math itself is a naturally sequential topic. It builds concepts one upon another cumulatively. And so we’re trying to follow that natural sequence of math and giving the student at every lesson the opportunity to master that material before moving on and building onto it so that they feel confident and they feel equipped because every new lesson is going to be a new challenge. And you don’t ever want to come into a new challenge feeling hopelessly ill-equipped and unprepared. So we want to make sure that prerequisites are filled with every step along the way. I like what you said before, too, Gretchen, about the parent feeling anxious or ill-equipped. Because unlike most grade-based courses, Math-U-See was designed for this one-on-one tutorial setting where it gives that student that time. And the parent can be learning right along with the student and strengthening their own skills. But the idea that the student can take the time, not follow someone else’s pre-set schedule because if that student hasn’t mastered the material and you say, well, sorry, we have to move on to the next lesson and the parade marches on without them, they are immediately behind something. Do you know what I mean? So we want to make sure that they are always feeling equipped, always feeling confident to take on that next challenge.

Gretchen Roe: 00:08:18.004
Kathleen, I wonder if you could speak a little bit about the fact that kids can’t learn math in a vacuum and being able to learn alongside your student or encourage your student to be there in that learning process. I recognize in this digital age that there are programs that say, don’t worry about it. Our computer will teach your student math. And that’s not always the best formula for success. So can you talk about what we have learned as we’ve walked with families?

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:08:50.753
Sure. I think again, going back to when a child struggles, they don’t know why they struggle. So if you have them online, something like that, and then they’re getting they’re getting problems wrong or they’re not doing that great. You don’t always know what the reason is if you’re not, if you’re not engaged in there. We sometimes have people ask us the question, well, what percent should they get right on the test before they move on? And what we say is, well, we don’t want to look at it that way. And the reason you don’t look at it that way is because if your child gets the same four types of problems wrong in each lesson, they’re not understanding that concept. That’s why they keep getting those lessons wrong. So if you’re just looking for an 85% or a 90%, your child’s not understanding something and they’re moving forward. And now you may have missed a concept. So what we say is you want them to show mastery of each concept as they’re addressing it. The way you know mastery, the biggest way is that your child can teach it back to you. Because truly, if we can teach someone how to do something else, that means that we understand it ourselves.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:10:08.819
So that’s a big reason why watch the video with your child at the beginning of the lesson so that as they’re going through the lesson, two things, number one, you can be there if they say they have a question and you can recall what was in the video and redirect them. But mostly you want to be able to know that they’ve mastered it. If they’re teaching it back to you, you need to know what they’re teaching back so that, okay, now you understand, yes, my child taught it back to me. Now I know they’ve had time to practice it. They’ve taught it back to me. They’ve mastered this concept. And then you as a parent feel confident that your child really has mastered that concept and can move on now and learn another concept.

Gretchen Roe: 00:10:54.795
Kathleen, you brought something up that’s really important and I’m going to ask both of you to address this because I think this is one of the places where the wheels pop off the wagon for a lot of us. And that is what does that teach back really look like? What does that contain that I should be looking for as a parent to go, yes, you have it? And I’m going to ask both of you to answer that. So Lisa, I’ll start with you and then I’ll circle back to Kathleen.

Lisa Chimento: 00:11:20.346
Yeah, I think the one thing that most homeschoolers don’t realize that they are missing out on when their kids aren’t in school is that opportunity to call the student to the board and make them work a math problem out in front of the class. It’s mortifying when you’re in school, but when you don’t do it, there’s something that there’s a real benefit that you could be missing. And so I often ask parents, and this is one of the reasons why there needs to be parental engagement, because you don’t know if they’ve mastered it. Pull a problem out of the workbook and ask that student to work it out loud in front of you, narrating their steps as they go, and explaining the why behind it. Now, they might not offer that voluntarily, but you can stop them and go, “Why’d you do that?” Ask them why. We want them to know why they’re doing it. And although it feels like, “Well, why do they have to know why? Can’t they just solve it,” I will tell you, when they get to algebra, they’ll need to know why. So let’s prepare them all along the way with that understanding because that understanding means that they’re not just learning tips and tricks that can be easily forgotten, they are learning–they’re learning the guts and the underlying concepts that they need to know to be able to do those higher level maths.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:12:36.701
And I was doing the teach-back without even realizing [laughter] it was the teach-back, which is funny because my one son– he didn’t want to have a worksheet put in front of him every day. That wasn’t his thing, that– to keep giving him more worksheets. So I had to switch it up. So I would at times stand at our big whiteboard and I’d say, “Okay. Tell me what to write. Where do I write it? Where do I put it? Now what do I do?” And I had him telling me step by step what to do. Through that, I was able to say, “Oh, he gets this. He’s got it. So I was doing the teach-back with him without even realizing laf it. I was doing it more because putting a new worksheet in front of him every day just wasn’t /working for him. So I had to switch it up and figure out different ways to have him practice those problems.

Gretchen Roe: 00:13:25.712
Yeah. And I remember when you interviewed Steve Demme Gretchen and he mentioned something that I had never thought of before because some kids might not know what you’re looking for. They might not know what to do or they might feel uncomfortable at first. And what he mentioned was that he would start the new day. And instead of just putting the worksheet in front of him or asking his son to work a problem out loud, Steve would take a problem in the in the workbook and he would work it out loud, narrating his steps, explaining the why. So he was modeling for his son what he wanted for him to do back. And it also kind of took some of the pressure off, that he didn’t have to remember this from the day before cold. The next morning, he had somebody sort of refreshing that process for him. So if you’ve got a student who’s really not sure, you do it. You’re the parent, you take the problem, you work it. And then, ask them if they’re ready to try one for you.

Gretchen Roe: 00:14:21.644
Great. And as the parent of three boys, I am certain that somewhere on the Y chromosome, it says, “Don’t talk out loud,” particularly when it becomes to math– when it comes to mathematics. But what we don’t realize – and we have a colleague, Sue Walker, who talks often about this – is that verbalization of your skills process helps put it in your head in the right place so you can retrieve it later. And I’ll tell you how this comes back to bless you later. I would hope never to have to do anything beyond Algebra II. And when my youngest was doing calculus, he came into my office with a hand, literally a fistful of papers. It was one problem six pages long. And he said, “I need your help with this.” And prayer is real in that moment because I had no idea how I was going to help him. But he set it down on the desk in front of me and he started talking his way through the problem. And about halfway through the second page, he went, “Oh, I see what I– never mind. And thanks for your help, Mom.” That’s what we all want for our kids– is we want them to become self advocates. We want them to be able to learn on their own. But that’s not an age thing. That’s not an experience thing. That is a practice thing.

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:50.732
So if there’s a hill you want to die on as far as getting your kids to be proficient at the teach-back, it’s making them say it out loud. And I don’t care whether you’re using Math-U-See or any other mathematics program. They will discover their own mistakes when they begin to say it out loud. And that is enormous. Another thing, ladies, that we talked about in the preparation of this was to talk about asking ourselves as parents. When we’re seeing our kids struggle, we had a checklist of things that we could, “Okay, am I doing this? Am I doing this?” If you are that parent who finds yourself in the busy realm of life, who, as Kathleen says, hands your kid a worksheet and then heads off to do something else, we kind of want to readdress that. So ladies, can we talk a little bit about, what are the things as a parent that I should be doing to prepare, whether it’s Math-U-See or any math program? What should I do before I sit down with my kids so that I know what they’re going to be learning?

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:17:11.881
Well, I think when you first start a math curriculum, understand how it’s taught. Math-U-See is mastery, which means that we want them to master each concept before they move on. And then just understand the structure of the of the curriculum that you’re using. Where ours has a video, but then it also has an instruction manual. So as the parent, you’re going to be the best equipped. If you read through the instruction manual for that lesson, then you’re watching the video. And then from there, you’re now presenting it to your child so that they can then go and practice what was taught in that lesson. The more equipped you are, the more confident you’re going to feel, even for someone who’s not math confident. I wasn’t. When I started homeschooling my kids, math was the one area that I saw it, “Okay, I don’t know how I’m going to do math. I can do the other stuff. I don’t know how I’m going to do math.” But I started in alpha, and I took one year at a time, and I learned along with my kids. I was right there with them doing every lesson with them all the way up through geometry.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:18:19.641
Even for both of them, by the time they get to algebra 1, they both said to me, “Mom, can I go do this in my room, please?” Because they wanted. They were at the point that they wanted independence, and I knew they needed it. So I sat in my room, and I watched the video, and they were off in their room watching the video. But I was then able to support them if they needed it. I was able to give them that dependence, independence, but still support them. And it helped me because I felt equipped. I felt like I could help them to an extent if I needed to. I knew I could reach out to Math-U-See support for support if I needed it. But at least I wasn’t feeling like, “Here, do this work. I have no idea what I’m giving you, but go do it.” I felt like I understood what they were doing for the most part. So being that I had that confidence as I went through each level, it definitely helped me to be better support for them.

Lisa Chimento: 00:19:18.673
The other thing that I would add is utilize the materials that your curriculum is providing for you to the fullest because they’re designed to be used together. So with Math-U-See, for most of the levels, manipulatives are used. And I look at comments on Facebook, and people ask a lot of questions. Do I need to use the manipulatives? And there are people going, “No, I don’t need to use them. My kids didn’t need to use them.” But I have to tell you, you’re not going to get the best results without using all of the pieces that were put together to give you success. When you introduce or present anything to a student for them to learn, if you can engage multiple senses, you are giving them a best chance of not only understanding that material, but also retaining it. And the ability to teach a child something concretely and visually really helps with the understanding. So like I said before, they’re not just memorizing tips and tricks on how to solve problems on paper. They are seeing real application of those concepts in real-life scenarios with very concrete materials.

Lisa Chimento: 00:20:33.306
I really urge you, if you have been using Math-U-See and your student hasn’t been using the manipulatives because either they don’t like them or you just feel like what’s the big deal, please go back and revisit. I can’t tell you how many parents that I’ve spoken to who will call in and say, my child is struggling with fractions. And the first question I’ll ask is, have you been using the fraction overlays? Oh, no, we just never pulled those out. Well, let me encourage you to go back and revisit those lessons where the struggle began. And let’s pull out those manipulatives. You will see a difference because there are powerful tools. This is not childish counting blocks. You know what I mean? They’re used as counting blocks in the primer level. But beyond that, we’re teaching very highly abstract and complex concepts with manipulatives. And they serve as tools to build deeper understanding and long-term retention.

Gretchen Roe: 00:21:29.170
We have a colleague, Sue Wachter, who says the manipulatives allow you to slot the information into your brain properly for later retrieval. And I know statistically, because we’re a math company, that there are those of you who are sitting out there who took a look at some lesson and went, I don’t understand how to do this. I’m just going to teach this the way I learned it, which is fine if you’re wholly confident in that. But if that little guy who sits on your shoulder goes, maybe you’re not doing a really terrific job at that, then maybe it’s time for you to take a pause and step back and figure out how the manipulatives explicate for your student how to teach those. We have another colleague who says something I just love. You only have to be one day smarter than your student. And I think when Jonas says that, I’m like, that’s brilliant. The truth is you only have to be one day ahead of your student in math to be able to change the outcome.

Gretchen Roe: 00:22:37.287
And in the show notes, I’m going to include a link to a webinar we did just a couple of weeks ago with a vision therapist. And I will tell you, and I can speak on behalf of these ladies. So often when we have parents who say, oh, my child just doesn’t get the facts or they get all the way into division and then they hit a brick wall and all forward progress stops. So often it has to do not with their ability to memorize, not with their ability to understand, but with their inability to explain to you that their vision is betraying them. And so what I am referring to here is not whether your child can see 2020. I’m referring to whether your child’s eyes track together across a page the way they are supposed to. And if that tracking is off by even the smallest amount, then it will lead to comprehension issues, recall issues, frustration.

Gretchen Roe: 00:23:43.223
If you have a child who has a hair-trigger temper and you don’t know what sets that child off, it is worth exploring their functional vision issues because nine times out of ten, there’s something that’s not working the way it should be. And if you can resolve that, it is a complete game changer for your child. Now, the one other thing that I want to talk about, and Lisa was very intentional to say, “Talk about this”, is dyscalculia. Dyscalculia is a rare and difficult disorder that must be diagnosed by a PhD. And it’s where a child struggles with the concepts of math all the way from the fancy term called subitizing. So subitizing means I pick up a little dice and the dice has three dots on it. And I know that that is the number three. A child who has to count one, two, three, in order to recognize that that number is three every time may indeed have dyscalculia.

Gretchen Roe: 00:24:53.269
But what we also see frequently is kids who have a supposition of dyscalculia actually have a functional vision issue. And if you can resolve the functional vision issue, then dyscalculia is not so much an issue. So I do not denigrate anybody’s diagnosis if you have gotten it from a PhD. And if you have, we have ways to work around that and make math more doable for you. But if you have a suspicion, just because every math program you’ve ever tried has been a ridiculous struggle, there are other things that you need to rule out before you make that decision. And that’s an expensive diagnosis. So I want to encourage you that way. Lisa, the last thing I want to talk about is high school math courses and, “When am I ever going to use this?” And we’ve had this conversation a bunch of times. So I want both of you to talk a little bit about step beyond the page of the agony of doing algebra and why it’s important to do algebra or something like it.

Lisa Chimento: 00:26:06.593
I enjoy this conversation now because after pulling my four kids through it and really only giving it half my attention because homeschool moms and dads are busy people. When I came to work for the company, I put myself through the course and I worked every problem and I recognized the places where I had questions. And I discovered some things– as I went through it, I discovered some things about myself and what was happening was that I was recognizing that I could no longer just dive into a problem. There were often multiple ways to solve these problems. And I needed to stop and take a step back and really look at the problem. And a couple of times and ask myself, what’s the best way to approach this problem? And what I realized as I went through the course was I was actually developing even more my evaluation skills. And for an adult, that’s huge. I mean, we’re talking about kids and not to pile on the boys, but I mean, generally they they act and then they think, right?

Lisa Chimento: 00:27:13.716
So that opportunity to stop before doing anything and really examine what you’re about to walk into and figure out what’s the best way. That’s an adult skill that’s going to benefit them throughout life. So I love that opportunity to develop evaluation skills, critical thinking skills, logic skills. All of these are developed throughout algebra. And it doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time. It takes patience. But if you are forewarned, you’re better armed for it and you’re better prepared to deal with it as you face it. Because there will be challenges, there may be frustrations. And if you know that this is doing something in your brain that will benefit you later, it will give you more encouragement to stick with it and again, not to pile on the boys, but I’m going to add to what you said before about talking out a problem. It’s universal.

Lisa Chimento: 00:28:10.189
I’ve spoken with people in New Zealand and Australia, and they have the same problem with their teenage boys who do not want to show their work. If your student is in algebra and they are fighting you on this– this is another hill worth dying on because it results– when you don’t show your work, it results in very silly errors that didn’t have to happen. If your child is before algebra and any of those levels, help them to make it a habit now, because it will be much easier for them when they get to algebra. You just can’t leave things out because you are doing multiple operations in a single problem and it’s so easy to miss something. So showing your steps as you go is worth the time and trouble that it takes. And I’ll let Kathleen add more there.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:29:01.394
Okay, so just to say, I know even when I was growing up in school, even then everybody was saying, why do I need to learn this? We didn’t understand it then. The problem now, unfortunately, has multiplied exponentially because we all have little computers now that we carry around with us that we have readily accessible. And now kids even more think, why do I need to learn this? I can just pull out my little mini computer and I can get the answer. The problem is if you don’t even know the information to ask, if you don’t even know what it is that you want an answer for. That’s where the issue comes in, where if you’re learning up through those higher levels of math, as Lisa said, it’s teaching you to think. It’s teaching you to understand what is my problem? What am I trying to solve here? It’s teaching you to analyze all that. You can’t plug something into your little computer if you don’t even know what you’re looking for. And granted, I had two boys who asked those questions as well, “Why do I need to learn this? Why do I have to go all the way up through Algebra 2 and then do stewardship?”

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:30:13.481
They did the personal finance curriculum. “Why do I need to learn this?” Yet now, as adults, they both find it helpful and they’re glad that they used it. My oldest son is very interested in the stock market. He learned to be able to read what he was seeing and then even compute things because he went through higher level math and he was able then to figure it out. And they’re both very much into baseball stats. And not just reading stats, but they try to analyze it. They try to figure it out, “Well, what if he gets– what if he gets a hit, three hits in the next game? Then his his OBS is going to go up to this, and–” and they’re figuring all this stuff out. And I’m thinking, yep, it’s because they have the ability to understand that they can take numbers and they can do things with them and they can analyze things and they can get results. And now they actually enjoy doing it themselves as opposed to just looking it up on their phone.

Gretchen Roe: 00:31:12.666
Right. And one of the things I think that’s really important is to recognize that the life skills we use as an adult we need to begin to impart to our children even if they don’t see the value of that when they are still children. And one of the virtues I have found with Math-U-See is it gave me the ability to have kids go beyond me mathematically, where– go into realms that I couldn’t even help them with because they’d learned the methodology to, as Kathleen explained, think for themselves and analyze and apply that differently. Now, there are some of you who are sitting in the audience who say, “But I’ve got a kid who’s just never going to get through Algebra 1, we’re going to include a webinar I did back in August with Temple Grandin talking about the truly visual learners and how maybe Algebra 1 is not the best path forward, but most of us reside in states where we have a requirement for four years of high school math.

Gretchen Roe: 00:32:21.711
What does that look like? Geometry, carpentry, draftsmanship, auto mechanics. All of those can be applicative high school math level experiences for your children who learn visually, who maybe don’t understand the abstract of working in X. And so I want to encourage you as a parent, instead of seeing the world as a very small circle out of which you might not be able to see fruit, expand your thought processes and think in possibilities. What could life be like for my student if I encouraged them differently? Ladies, we’ve reached the top of the hour. Do you have any closing thoughts for us? And Lisa, I’ll start with you, and then Kathleen, I’ll let you have the final word.

Lisa Chimento: 00:33:09.937
Yeah, just a quick note because I use the word notes. If your child is of age to start taking notes, it sounds crazy to take notes in math. It’s a great thing. And [inaudible] index cards and let them do it. Let them write the notes. Let them put their new vocabulary in there and give definitions in words that make sense to them. Put a whole punch in the corner of those cards and put them on a jump ring. And they are creating for themselves a math resource that they can add to and use for the rest of their lives. I think it’s a fabulous idea. And I’m finding, especially when they hit Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, it’s an enormous benefit to them. But again, if you’d have questions, please give a call in. We will help you. We’re here for you guys.

Kathleen Calabrese: 00:33:56.236
And I was going to reiterate that, that most of us who work in customer service are homeschoolers who either have used Math-U-See in the past or currently use Math-U-See. We even have one of our reps use Math-U-See as a child herself, and now she’s using it for her children. So we have a lot of experience with all the levels and we are here to help. So if you are using Math-U-See or if you’re considering using Math-U-See and you have a child who is struggling and you need some help, call us, email us, chat with us. We want to help you. We want to support you. We want you to be successful.

Gretchen Roe: 00:34:35.256
And regardless of what math program you are using, we have methodologies and teaching strategies that can help you in your journey, no matter where your journey takes you. In your show notes, you’re going to get several webinars that we have done, one on word problems, because several of you ask us how to attack that. We’re going to give you some strategies about what happens when you hit the wall with long division, what may be happening there. We’re going to give you that webinar about undiagnosed vision issues and how they affect students. We’re also going to talk about different learners. And the last two that we’re going to give you is one specifically about high school math, and I’m going to put a plug-in here. In February, we’re going to have a self-similar conversation to what we’ve had today. But we’re going to dive deeply into how, as a parent, you can come alongside your homeschooler who is a high schooler and help them be mathematically successful.

Gretchen Roe: 00:35:34.293
One of the stories I will tell you is about a student who couldn’t get through what was the equivalent of seventh-grade math, and she just graduated with a degree in kinesiology. There are ways to make it work, folks. I promise you. So join us for that February discussion. Look for it on your calendars. And then last but not least, those of you who have a child who learns differently, the Temple Grandin episode was probably the most rewarding time that I spent this year learning about people who learn differently, learning about myself. And so we’ll include that in the show notes as well. We want to thank you all for coming alongside us today, for letting us come into your living rooms and talk to you. We’ll look forward to you all joining us again in the future, and thank you all so much for being a part of The Demme Learning Show. Take care, everyone. Have a wonderful afternoon.

Voice-Over: 00:36:27.647
Thanks again for joining us. We’re glad to be a part of your educational community. You can help us grow our community even more by rating, reviewing, and subscribing to the show wherever you may be hearing this. Don’t forget that you can access the show notes and watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show or on our YouTube channel. We’ll see you again next time. Until then, keep building strong foundations for lifelong learning.

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