Rowena Scherer: 00:00:00.300
But how to get kids excited or get families even started, right? The easiest way is– think about places you’re curious about. Think about places you have heard and you want to learn more, right? I think all of us have places that we want to learn more and curious about, right?

Gretchen Roe: 00:00:22.208
Good afternoon, everyone. This is Gretchen Roe, and I’d like to welcome you to The Demme Learning Show today. I’m so excited to welcome my new friend Rowena Scherer. We have something in common, and that is a love of food. And she’s going to tell you all about her love of food. But what I found so amazing about meeting her was the fact that her goal is to create a passion for food in the next generation. And we’re going to learn about that today. This is just going to be an amazing adventure. And as someone who loves food, loves to talk about food, loves to eat it, I think you’ll find lots of commonalities between the two of us today as we talk. Rowena, tell us about you.

Rowena Scherer: 00:01:08.120
First of all, thank you, Gretchen, for having me. And I know the moment we met, we are like, “Have a common destination in life.” We both love food and travel and stuff. So let me tell you a little bit about me. I am originally from Malaysia, now living in New York City. I grew up in Malaysia cooking. My mom was very clever. I always call it like, “The mother steward of Malaysia.” She made us cook. She [sew?] my clothes. And we will, every Sunday, clean our room, cook together. And that’s how I grew up. And because of that, when I came to the States, I actually thought I will advance my culinary skills. And what is the hardest cuisine to me was French. And so I did a French culinary degree at the French Culinary Institute, but never really want to go into the restaurant world or the food world, because it’s sort of like my time to have a family. And that boat has sailed. But in the back of my mind, it’s always about food and travel and education. And as I have kids too, I started to realize how important it is to bring that to our children, right? I mean, our kids are– especially in today’s world. They are so connected technologically, but socially, they are not, right? They’re all hearsay. They don’t really understand what it really means. And the history behind all that. And also raising my kids in the United States– if they study history or geography, a lot is very US centric, right? They learn that the history of– the Civil War and what’s happening in the US every single– from middle school to lower school to high school. But the world is such a huge place. And there is connection historically. So my mission is to really get families together, and let’s enjoy not just the joy of food and culinary adventures, but the cultural aspect of it, right? We really need to raise global citizens among the next generation. I think it’s our responsibility to do that because the world is now so connected and that they will be confident enough as they grow up to then really travel and be living in a different country and really immerse and learn from each other. So I want to build that confidence. I want to build awareness. And I also want them to learn a life skill. Cooking is a life skill, so.

Gretchen Roe: 00:03:43.913
Absolutely. In my family – and I think I told you this when we first met – your big birthday present when you turned four was, “I brought you to the kitchen and taught you to scramble eggs.” I didn’t really realize how that was going to affect me now that I have six adults as children, but being able to go to any one of their homes and be fed a gracious meal and knowing that they enjoy cooking as much as I have enjoyed cooking. I got razzed last week because I’m in the middle of a very busy travel season and a coworker said, “Why don’t you just do takeout”? I’m like, “But you don’t understand.” The way I find myself is to go into the kitchen, climb into a recipe, and enjoy that experience. And to me, that is really amazing. So where did you come up with this idea to connect not just food, but culture to a cuisine so that children would be able to understand?

Rowena Scherer: 00:04:43.843
So I have a story because it’s my children. I always start with the kids, right? So they travel a lot. So personally, I have probably, well, I’ve lived in six different countries or seven. And I’ve traveled to– like in this book, 18 of the 20 countries. So I travel a lot. And everywhere I go, it’s like food and culture and cuisine. And so I feel like I have really good experience to share. So it was actually in Thailand when my kids were 9 and 11, and they will do a cooking class with me. And then they have– they were holding up this onion. They’re like, “Mom, what do you want me to do with this onion”? And I was kind of disappointed not at them, myself for knowing all this myself, but never really shared that experience with my kids, right? And so what kind of that trip triggered a thought of life’s too short. I really should be doing something I love. And it’s not even work. To me, this is not even work because this is really what I love to do. And finance has been great. It gave me a great life. But that is like I’m tired of it. I feel like I have more to give to this world. And my gift to the world and to my kids is my knowledge of all the different places I’ve been, the connection, the food, the fun of coming together and cook together, and also teaching them so that they can grow up to be a global citizen. So that was how it started. So then it just– immediately I was just like, “I need to do this.” I came back from that trip, went to my partners and said, “I need a sabbatical. I need to think about how to do this. And if I’m doing it, I’m not coming back. Give me six months, if it’s not even possible, I’ll come back.” And I’ve never been back. It’s been five years.

Gretchen Roe: 00:06:41.552
Sometimes it’s those amazing ideas that really do launch our ship. So tell us a little bit about Eat2Explore because it’s a great website. And of course, it will be part of our show notes for folks who are attending and folks who might find this on the web afterwards or as a podcast. But tell us how you came to that idea because I think it’s really terrific.

Rowena Scherer: 00:07:07.356
Yes. So Eat2Explore, as in E-A-T, number two, explore, thanks to my husband, that name is actually pretty unique. It’s a food and cultural experiential cooking kit. Now, I want to emphasize the experiential because it’s about the immersive of the experience. You learn the geography, the music, the language, the art and social studies and just kind of combine all topics into a country. And I would love for you to– we’re starting to add blogs, playlists where you can play the music while you cook. We are going to add movie suggestions so you can actually start watching a movie or something around the country. It’s just a great way to immerse yourself country by country. And with Eat2Explore, we have 24 countries to explore. And it all similar to the cookbook structured by continent if I feel continent is a great– another geography lesson and focus that it’s good to know what continents are and the similarities among the country within the continent.

Gretchen Roe: 00:08:16.231
Talk to me. Where did you start, because at that point, when you began your journey, you had already been exposed to a variety of cuisines. You’re a French-trained chef. How did you choose where to begin, because you didn’t begin in France.

Rowena Scherer: 00:08:34.909
No, I didn’t. No, I began in Malaysia. So I know Asia very well. But how to get kids excited or get families even started– the easiest way is think about places you’re curious about. Think about places you have heard and you want to learn more. I think all of us have places that we want to learn more and curious about. And the fact that we have 24– there will be one of the countries of multiple countries in there. And I also feel like maybe start with continent. I’m like, “I’m trying to learn more about Europe continent.” Maybe you can say, “This is my heritage. I have a little bit of Italian, a little bit of this.” Let’s start with that. And for me, all the places that I started with – and I think I started with 12 countries right away – are countries I’ve lived in or countries I’ve visited and I love the cuisine. And I also try to make it like that– countries that people can relate with, not some random countries that people are not likely to know. So I try to first start with the favorites, typical favorites like France and Italy and Spain. And then, we got Japan and India and China. And then, I think we do Brazil, Peru later, Mexico and USA first. And then, we expanded more and we added two countries every year.

Gretchen Roe: 00:09:59.536
I see. Okay. So how long ago did you start this then?

Rowena Scherer: 00:10:04.381
Actually, I started in 2017 more as a [milk kid?] and I quickly kind of pivoted from there because I think dealing with fresh ingredients is just so hard to manage. And I also feel like another lesson plan– lesson learned is shopping for groceries. I think a lot of kids don’t do– or families don’t do that anymore. But imagine giving a math lesson. You can give your kids a $20 budget and said, “Let’s see how much you can get for $20.” And then, you can learn the aisles and feel the food. So now, we actually incorporate shopping as an activity for families. That pivoted in October 2018. So we’ve been in that same model since then.

Gretchen Roe: 00:10:50.996
Oh. That makes a lot of sense because that brings more than just the skill of cooking to the table. It also brings selecting the ingredients, finding the ingredients, knowing the difference between a red onion and a white onion. I remember my youngest daughter was in college and she had– she lived in a suite with six other young ladies. And one of those young ladies– her mom was from Guatemala. And so she came to make traditional Guatemalan salsa for them. And one of the girls in the suite picked up a red onion and said, “What’s this?” She’d never seen one before. Someone said, “Well, it’s an onion.” And she said, “But it’s purple.” And somebody said, “Well, it’s a red onion.” And she said, “But it’s purple [laughter].” And I remember vividly– my daughter was 19 at the time. And she said, “Mom?” For about 10 seconds, I could not figure out what was happening here because my first thought was, “What do you mean you’ve never seen a red onion,” and, “What do you mean you don’t know that a red onion is actually purple? And she said, in just seconds, my brain went, bing, bing, bing. Oh, my goodness, I didn’t realize that everybody didn’t have the culinary experiences I had had.

Rowena Scherer: 00:12:14.452
Yep, yep. Well, another benefit, I have to say, I know lots of parents struggle with picky eaters. The reason why they’re picky is sometimes they just don’t know what goes in the meal, right? They can see chicken fingers. They can see burgers. They know what it is. But if you give them something totally random, they’re like, what am I eating? Right? But if you start from the process of buying the food, feeling it, they’re learning about what goes inside. And then they participate in making it. The chances of them eating it is so much higher. I have taught third grader at a prestigious private school. And all the kids are like, I don’t know. What this is? I don’t want to try it. And then next thing you know, it was only vegetables. And next thing you know, they were chowing down the food. You need to give expose them. And if they know what it is. They’re learning, they’re like, oh, this is interesting. Let me taste it. So I always said, picky eater, get them in the kitchen, start them from buying the grocery and knowing what the process is.

Gretchen Roe: 00:13:18.999
I think there’s also a degree of control that maybe we forget, because as adults, we forget what it was like to learn the process of cooking. I had to laugh at my seven-year-old granddaughter this past weekend. I visited and my son was away. So my daughter-in-law and I decided we would have sushi for dinner. And we got a variety of different sushi. One of them was a vegetable sushi. And I looked over and Isla had eaten the entire vegetable sushi by herself. I said, Isla, you didn’t even share any of that. She said, no, Grandy, it was really good. And I thought, okay, here’s a seven-year-old. And when you look at it, it’s wrapped in seaweed. We had a seaweed salad. And she said, what’s that? And I said, it’s a seaweed salad. And she said, I don’t think I like that. And I said, have you tasted it? And she said, well, I like seaweed that crunches. That doesn’t look crunchy. I said, well, I took some and I put it on her plate. And she tasted it and she said, well, that’s an experience. And I’m laughing. I would never have said that at seven years old. So I said, I take it. It means you don’t want anymore. She said, I’ll stick to my crunchy seaweed.

Rowena Scherer: 00:14:44.120
One taste. I mean, slowly, your taste, but like you said, it’s like walking. I would say it has to be trained, right? It’s baby steps. Just like walking, you have to learn how to walk before you know how to run. So if you do basic, slowly add on and teach them to try different things, their palate will expand. They will be more willing to try different food.

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:07.854
I think so. I think we need to figure out a way to help kids be brave when it comes to food.

Rowena Scherer: 00:15:16.706
Kids just need to be respected. They’re curious. They are like a sponge. They are learning, right? And sometimes I think adults kind of like, oh, you won’t like this. But you know what? They want to be having the experience too. I think giving them a try and slowly add on things. It’s really will help them in the end.

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:37.269
Well, I will tell you, one of the things that I loved about this book was the fact that in a taste of the world, you had the exploration. So for instance, the exploration of Asia. And it’s not just a cookbook, it’s almost like an experience. And I loved the fact that not only you have beautiful pictures and step-by-step instructions, I could hand this book to a nine-year-old and say, “Follow these directions and do this.” And I think most nine-year-olds would do that. And I think if you’re invested in the process, you have a lot more chance of being willing to try the food.

Rowena Scherer: 00:16:22.307
I agree. I agree. And kids are typically very proud when they actually make something for the family and they actually could showcase it. And I’ve seen so many of my customer and their kids are just so proud of what they made. And they even bring to school and say, “I made this.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:16:41.487
Which is a really exciting thing to also be able to do, to say, “I did this.” But I also like the fact like you had the sections where you say, “Did you know?” Because what not only does this cookbook do to teach you to try a new recipe, but it also gives you the opportunity to have a conversation about another culture. So tell me a little bit about how you generated the idea of making this so kid-friendly. Is this all Rowena or did you find people to help you in this process? How did that happen?

Rowena Scherer: 00:17:17.766
Yeah. So, yeah, I did all the recipes and the photos. So the photos were all taken from my kitchen. I work with educators to explore educational material like the geography were retired homeschool teachers that I work– a teacher that I work with, actually an assistant principal for another school. So the educational material is all research based done by a professional, whereas all the recipes are done by me and also with chef from the country. So majority I seek out a chef from that country. We kind of go back and forth on the recipes. I kind of always control it in a way that I make sure it’s easy to explore standard and that I make everything sort of less spicy because it’s not heat spice because kids can’t handle heat spice. So all the recipes are spice spice, spicy spice, but not the heat spice. And I tweak it as well just so that it will be family-friendly. And then the steps, as you have noticed, unlike most cookbook, I assume you know nothing, right? And my step will be like, “Peel your onion, cut your ends, get rid of this and cut in half, and then cut it in this side.” So most recipe is just like, “Chop onion.” So what I want, I want to reach and teach is really explaining to you what you need to do. And what I’m going to be doing more and more, and I hope all of you will join me, I’m actually starting to do a YouTube live every third Wednesday at 6:00 PM to teach, to do a cooking class on all our recipes.

Gretchen Roe: 00:19:03.099
Oh, how wonderful. That would be amazing. So we had some really great questions that parents ask us. And I’m not sure exactly where to begin here, but you have already addressed the biggest one, which is, “I have picky eaters.” And I think one of the things I’d like to talk about as well is I think we create picky eaters. And you already alluded to that by identifying maybe in advance of saying, “Oh, you won’t like this,” or, “You’re not going to appreciate how this tastes,” instead of framing it differently. And I know that when we had our original conversation, we talked about framing the conversation with kids in the positive so that they could see what might be an advantage to trying something new. So can you talk a little bit about that? What I’d like you to envision is you’re the mom in the kitchen with a child who says, “Oh, I don’t want to try a strawberry. That looks weird.” I was this mom. I actually backed her into a corner and made her taste it. And it turns out now at 30-something, she loves strawberries. I did the same thing with tomatoes and she still won’t eat tomatoes, so.

Rowena Scherer: 00:20:24.306
I think strawberry is an easy one, right? You can always say, “All right, maybe you don’t like it. Doesn’t look plain. How about dipping it in chocolate, right?” Just like add a little something. And then maybe like tomato, somebody was talking about zucchini and they’re like, “My kids never touch zucchini.” And I said, “Why don’t you show that recipe card or recipe on Lebanon zucchini boat where they get the fun of digging out the flesh and make it into a boat and actually be involved in doing it,” and just say, “Hey, what about trying this?” Give it a shot. If you don’t like it, it’s fine. But at least the parents can have dinner, right? So you can make it into an event where let’s give it a try but if you don’t like it, at least the adult can eat it, right? So I think slowly, I feel the best way is involve them with the process. That is key. And then maybe add a little bit things that they like that you can add to it. If they like ketchup, you’re like, “Okay, look, we’ll just add some ketchup into the sauce, right? And it’ll make it delicious,” something they know, and they’re like, “I know I like that.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:21:37.811
Okay, that sounds like a great idea. Now, you had also said yesterday– I noticed that one of the questions that we had was to include children in the meal preparation to promote fine motor skills. So do you have any recommendations– I know there’s a lot of parents who don’t want to hand their kid a knife.

Rowena Scherer: 00:22:00.673
But there’s so many– yeah, I agree, knife can be scary. But nowadays, there’s so many other tools out there. We have a kid-friendly knife. It’s literally a serrated knife, and it’s plastic, right? And it will never cut anybody. And I always just get your kids a three-year-old. As long as they’re like a little bit old, not a baby, like a three-year-old, give them something. And then ask them to be involved in cutting something soft, right? They can start cutting, I don’t know– zucchini is kind of soft, pepper is a little soft. Something soft that they can chop. And first of all, doesn’t have to be precise. My kids was the same thing. They’re like, “Mom, this is not exactly half an inch.” I’m like, “Don’t worry about it. It can be an inch. It still tastes good.” You have to start somewhere. You can’t just assume you give a kid a big knife, right? They got to graduate, which is why our cookbook, actually every step has sort of a star or chef hats. So a one star means you can get the kids to like whisk, right? A three-year-old can whisk some sauce or dressing and roll meatballs and stuff like that. So get them started young. Then once you can see that their knife skills are better, right, then you can progress to a slightly bigger knife and stuff like that. So you can do it in stages. So I think start them when they’re young. Make it a family event. I mean, get everyone in the kitchen, even the little one. Put them in a little baby chair, right, and give them something to be involved in. So that way, the kids will– kids love routine. They crave for it. So if they know every Sunday afternoon is when we’re all going to do this together, play music, and mom and dad’s going to cook, and we’re gonna talk about the country, that’s an activity activity doesn’t have to be watching a TV show, or this could be in addition to your park and your sports and stuff. Just make it a family activity.

Gretchen Roe: 00:24:11.796
Well, what I liked about it as well is your idea was not just to make it about food, or just to make it about something different, but it was about also to make it about the culture. So can you talk a little bit about how you have pulled the culture into this book as well because that to me was fascinating?

Rowena Scherer: 00:24:29.455
Thank you. I mean, first of all, food is culture. So to learn food through the lens of culture, it just makes sense, right? So when I wanted to do this, it immediately strike me as it’s not just going to be about food. It has to teach about the culture, right? It goes hand in hand. It has been there for centuries. And no matter what country it goes to, any major celebration, it’s always about food. Every country, every culture always evolved around food. So therefore, when I thought of this business, it has to come with food, therefore it to explore a world. And the world is not just its history, the people, right, the landscape, the geography and the weather, and the food and the ingredients that comes from them. So it just all ties in together. It’s just a perfect match.

Gretchen Roe: 00:25:31.605
So tell me a little bit about your kids, because now they’re adults. So how are their culinary tastes? Do they have a variety of things?

Rowena Scherer: 00:25:41.115
When they were 9, 11, they don’t even know an onion. They’re like, “What am I doing with an onion? I know it’s an onion. What do you want me to do?” So then I started this. So every Sunday, I started cooking with them. So they tested every recipes. My daughter loved Asian. She kind of only eat her own food. She doesn’t like– I like to make elaborate meal and she will make her own. And my son, even though not natural, starting to really enjoy it. And the funny thing is now she has a girlfriend and he’s like, “I’m making summer roll because Amanda loves summer roll.” It’s so cute. And because I always tell him, I’m like, “Honey, can you imagine you know how to cook and you’re making a meal in your dorm room? The girls are going to line up to come over to your dorm room.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:26:34.382
Absolutely. Well, my youngest daughter, her boyfriend is of Guyana descent. And so she said, all right, I’m going to find– so she did some research, and one of their classic cuisines or dishes there is pepper pot. So she had to figure out not only how to make pepper pot, but she had to figure out one of the ingredients in that begins with a C. I’ll remember it because when I quit thinking about it, I’ll remember it. Anyway, she had to research the ingredients, get the ingredients together. And he’s not a particularly adventuresome eater, so I couldn’t wait. I was like, “Oh, I can’t wait to see how this works because I don’t know if he’s going to eat it or not.” And the funny part was he liked it so much, he asked her if she would make it for him again.

Rowena Scherer: 00:27:35.662
Oh, wow. See, I really think it’s– and who doesn’t like to come to your house and there’s food on– like fun food. And it’s such a joyful social time, right, to cook together. And so my kids, going back to my kids, both of them not only are great with food and cooking them now, they built confidence of traveling and living abroad. Both of them– my son took a gap year, was living in Dublin in Singapore, and then my daughter took a summer gap living in Shanghai. And I really think it’s partly because they are comfortable. They know what the country is, and the confidence built from this, starting with cooking, and then knowing the country, right? There’s no surprises. So I feel there’s so many soft skills that come out of it.

Rowena Scherer: 00:28:33.503
Oh, another important thing as a parent too, I notice kids when they’re young, between 3 to 12, all they want to do is spend time with you, right? And I know when parents have multiple kids, it’s tiring. It’s hard to manage all the one. But that’s the only time when they really want to spend time with you. And when they’re 13 and up, they want to be with their friends and they should be. And then when they’re high school, they need to spread their wings. They need to be independent. So that moment between 3 to 12 is the most important time where you want to not just outsource them to do different things, but bring them home, get them involved so you have a conversation. Because now more and more these days, kids, they find things online rather than talk to their parents, right? They hear all about this. But if you have a moment every week where you’re coming together, you can talk about it. You can talk about what’s happening in the world, what they think, what they are listening to, and have that, once you have that foundation, when they’re a teenager, they’ll come to you. And my kids will come and then we don’t see each other very much. But when they come to us, they’re asking questions, so.

Gretchen Roe: 00:29:48.904
And I think you’ve hit upon something really important is we need to catch them when they’re young and create those experiences, those memories. I laugh now because when my kids all get together, many of their conversations involve some sort of food experience that we’ve had together. And they love to talk about things they remember eating and their favorite things to eat. And the word that I was trying to remember was cassareep. That was something we had no idea what that was.

Rowena Scherer: 00:30:19.982
[crosstalk] research that.

Gretchen Roe: 00:30:20.762
So then first we had to Google it and figure out what that was. And then, of course, Amazon knows all. So Amazon delivered that to our door.

Rowena Scherer: 00:30:29.019
Probably in a big pot or big sack.

Gretchen Roe: 00:30:31.553
Actually, it came in a jar.

Rowena Scherer: 00:30:33.312
In a jar. Okay.

Gretchen Roe: 00:30:34.475
And it has the most wonderful smell. But you know what? If Callen hadn’t decided that she wanted to put Carl in touch with his family heritage, we would never have known what this ingredient was.

Rowena Scherer: 00:30:47.642
It’s true. Yeah.

Gretchen Roe: 00:30:49.390
And so I think there’s a little bit– so now speak to– we’ve talked about trying to get the kids excited about something different. Speak to the parent who’s afraid to try something new. That’s a lot harder.

Rowena Scherer: 00:31:06.782
It’s harder. But you know what? Funny thing is a lot of times the kids are now initiating it because I think kids these days are very curious. They see it. And I was actually talking to a mom recently who’s not a cook and is like only eat basic stuff. She said, “My son came to me and said, ‘Well, what’s my heritage? I know it’s part Asian.'” And then they found out that it’s Japanese and French or something. And then the son is like, “I’d like to make food from those country.” And they did. And the mom ended up learning more than the children, right? And I think this is why it’s so perfect. It’s like the whole family can learn together. Don’t be afraid. Cooking is you have to take the first step. And then once you start, you realize that it’s actually fun and enjoyable. And it’s fun for the whole family. And adults can learn too, never too late.

Gretchen Roe: 00:32:01.203
Right I think one of the things that we need to do is be brave. What you’re encouraging us to do here is to be brave. And sometimes that’s hard, particularly when you were not exposed to a variety of different foods growing up. I was because my parents traveled extensively, but my mother was not a brave eater. And so I’m grateful that my dad was, because he would encourage me to try new and different things. And sometimes I think a little bit of it comes down to being brave in front of your children.

Rowena Scherer: 00:32:44.152
True, true. But you know what it is? I think be brave and be willing to say, “Hey, I’m going to learn with you.” And in fact, that will be more powerful because the kids will be like, “Oh yeah, mom, let’s do it together.” You know what? That togetherness is what you want, right? The opportunity to say, “Let’s do this together. Let’s learn together, because I’m as curious as you are,” right? So that’s the way [crosstalk].

Gretchen Roe: 00:33:10.249
I love the way that you said that: do it together. So tell me a little bit more about your idea of grocery shopping, because I did this; this was kind of the way that my– I took the grocery list, divided it up. I figured it was a free math lesson. But you know what? The world is changing. My daughter, when I– I visited three of my six kids this past weekend, and my daughter was building her grocery list, and it was going to be delivered to her door, so her kids weren’t even going to go to the grocery store with her. So how do we change that?

Rowena Scherer: 00:33:45.834
So, with our eat2explore Box, it actually comes with a shopping list, which you can also download onto your phone. I highly encourage people to go to a grocery store. And that’s how I– we started to have a guide on how to best use eat2explore. And just go to the grocery store or go to your farmer’s market. You learn so much when you’re actually seeing the product. You can then teach the child between a green avocado and a ripe avocado. How can you tell, right? If you buy it from Instacart or HelloFresh or whatever, FreshDirect, rather like in the US, you don’t know what the quality is, right? Whereas if you go to a grocery store, you’ve got the quality, right? And sometimes you get the price option, and then you can teach them about all the different pricing. So I always encourage parents to just take them to a grocery store. It’s like an activity, right? “Go drive and go to this closest one, and which one should we try next? Next time, let’s go to Trader Joe’s or go to Whole Food,” and you can then kind of compare and contrast.

Gretchen Roe: 00:35:04.216
Right. That’s a really good idea as well. And the other thing that is implied in that is a geography lesson. How are you going to get to the grocery store? I taught my kids– my kids learned to drive routes with maps so that they could figure out which direction was north and which direction was west.

Rowena Scherer: 00:35:27.325
I think that’s a good idea.

Gretchen Roe: 00:35:27.957
And they would have to tell me which way I was going to turn, [laughter] which was always an adventure. How do you feel about gardening? I didn’t look through here, but do you ever talk to parents about gardening and growing their own ingredients?

Rowena Scherer: 00:35:44.534
I don’t have green thumb – I try – but I do keep. [laughter] I know my limitations. Every year, summer, I’ll do a planter of herbs, and I do it very well. Got my fresh herbs whole summer. But I tried tomatoes, I tried all that. I just can’t do it right. And also, living in New York City is a little harder. So I have thought about working with people that have more like a fruit planting green thumbs. That was not me. I encourage eating local. I encourage eating seasonal. So like, for instance, now spring is here. In fact, I just started doing videos again, just introducing different vegetables that comes up at spring. I went to the farmer’s market. I found a bunch of kale flour and they are beautiful and they are delicious, but you can only eat the top. The rest of it are sticks. So I have a video that I’ll share with you. And I also found green garbanzo beans, which is green like fresh chickpeas, the English peas that you have to kind of take it off from the pots. So I love exploring different, what’s the seasonal and then create dish out of it.

Gretchen Roe: 00:37:11.086
I think that brings another whole layer of ideas there as far as a parent is concerned. If you’re a parent who wants to take something like this and make it into some sort of a curricula, what is grown in your area? What is seasonal? What is in season right now? I was laughing because I was trying to figure out what could I make for dinner this evening in a busy evening that would be easy. And for us, it would be a wilted lettuce salad for dinner, which is something we all love and we enjoy eating. But not a lot of people think about those things. It’s about to be strawberry season. I’ve mentioned strawberries already.

Rowena Scherer: 00:37:55.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gretchen Roe: 00:37:57.422
So how many different kinds of things can you make with strawberries?

Rowena Scherer: 00:38:00.561
Yeah. Every Mother’s Day, my kids make me food. And that’s Mother’s Day and then Thanksgiving. So they all will cook. So this year, my son is not here and my daughter is like, “What do you want me to do?” I’m like, “You know what? Be inspired. Go to the farmer’s market. And then you think of something.” And she’s like, yes, great idea.

Gretchen Roe: 00:38:24.680
I think the other thing that we should think about as parents is we’re trying to create independent learners. We’re trying to create an environment where our children can learn independently. And to encourage that open conversation about what do you think about? Have you thought of trying and those kinds of things in a more open-ended conversation so that kids don’t feel that they’re pasted into McDonald’s is the only food I’ll eat outside my house.

Rowena Scherer: 00:38:58.315
Yeah.

Gretchen Roe: 00:38:58.583
And not that I’m not that I’m dissing McDonald’s or any other fast food restaurant, but I would love kids to be able to say, “Oh, at a buffet, I can eat this. And I can eat this and I can eat,” and choose a variety of different things that they would be able to find to consume.

Rowena Scherer: 00:39:17.151
Agreed. Agreed. Shouldn’t be, they shouldn’t be scared of it. They should be embracing it, you know, all kinds of food.

Gretchen Roe: 00:39:25.907
So tell me why you ordered this book in the way that you ordered it.

Rowena Scherer: 00:39:30.743
So it is first structured by continent. And then there is a little fun fact about the continent. And then what I like kids to do is pick up a continent first and then look at the map, which country you want to try. And then go to the country page and then say which dishes you want to try. That way, it’s their choice. They will try it and you get them involved.

Gretchen Roe: 00:39:58.319
Right. The other thing I like is that you’ve also created the opportunity for them to explore the music. And what other things can they explore when they’re studying a country?

Rowena Scherer: 00:40:12.099
So first of all, you learn geography, which is kind of what the differentiator between the cookbook and it to explore. So it to explore has materials to learn geography and music and language and art with links to YouTube videos, with links to books that we suggest, with links to virtual museums. And so that is more a more immersive experience. And so that’s what you can learn because even like meatballs, right? Every country had meatballs. Every country had dumplings, right? Different type of version of it. And why? Why is it like that? Historically, like the spice trade have come from all this country even though the Middle East is the one that started with meatballs, right? The Swedish king went and visited Middle East and learned about it. And now Swedish meatball kind of have its own identity, right? So you kind of have to like learn about, “Oh, how did this happen?” And so it’s fascinating. So the way I see it is you incorporate all the different learning and subjects and then make it a meal, play the music. Then if you want, you can watch some documentary or some movie about it as well. And maybe doing playing cards is another thing that I’m thinking about. I’m constantly adding things that people can learn.

Gretchen Roe: 00:41:41.742
Sure. Maybe you can even find games from those countries.

Rowena Scherer: 00:41:46.313
That’s what I think, like a board game. So one of the things that will come out soon is a board games.

Gretchen Roe: 00:41:52.629
Yeah, that would be really interesting to be able to link that culturally. Sit down, have a wonderful meal, and then play a board game from that.

Rowena Scherer: 00:41:59.570
Yeah, exactly.

Gretchen Roe: 00:42:01.322
Yeah, that would be really interesting. All right, Rowena, what have I missed as far as questions are concerned? I’m looking at the questions that I sent you yesterday. And I think we’ve covered most of them.

Rowena Scherer: 00:42:13.359
One of them that I don’t think you covered was retirement in Thailand, cultural differences.

Gretchen Roe: 00:42:17.050
Oh, yeah. Cultural differences await my young family. And that’s really interesting. So imagine if you having lived on so many different continents, what did you do first? When you moved to a new country, how did you begin that exploration?

Rowena Scherer: 00:42:37.153
So I have a caveat. When I moved and lived all this country, I was married or single, but no kids. But my kids have traveled a lot with us everywhere since they’re young. But I always, before I travel, it’s like, “Let’s get and learn a little bit about it.” So they know what it is, right? And specifically with Thailand, Thai people love children. They are great, they are gentle, they are just super nice people. And I say no matter which country you go to, let’s learn a little bit about it first. So it’s not a cultural shock for the kids. And they can then slowly adapt and knowing what to look out for, also kind of take away the fear, right? So I think it’s really do the liquid before, learn about it, cook some food from it or watch some movies and show so that when you go there, you’ll feel like, at least I know a little bit and not afraid.

Gretchen Roe: 00:43:39.113
I think something else that this thought just occurred to me is explore your family’s history. I mean, you have such a wide cornucopia of history. Tell us a little bit more about your background, because I remember thinking after I met with you, holy smokes, that is so cool. So in

Rowena Scherer: 00:44:03.982
Born in Malaysia in a little town called Moore, I’m the first one who went to college. And in fact, I got a scholarship in New Zealand. So I went to New Zealand. That was the first time I flew on a plane. And then from New Zealand, I got a job in Singapore, first with Deloitte and then with JP Morgan. And then Morgan sent me to New York. And then from New York, I met my husband. And then we moved to Hong Kong with JP Morgan. And with Morgan, I’ve been living in South Korea, in Mumbai, in Australia, in Geneva, in London, kind of the list just went on and on. And then we settled back in New York, and then I had my family. And we’ve been traveling ever since. And this year alone, I’m going to 10 different countries. So it’s crazy. I very–

Gretchen Roe: 00:44:59.798
How much do you like to be that child who was leaving home and going to another country, not having family members who could say, “Oh, this is what you can expect”? How did that feel?

Rowena Scherer: 00:45:15.524
I’m the only first person in my immediate family who went abroad. So it’s interesting. It’s good and bad, right? I’ve never lived home since I was 17, but I do go back. I go back every other year and sometimes every year. And now my kids go back on their own to visit my mom and my family. So both of them spent some time there. But it is harder, right? I’ve always been independent. But would I trade for something else? No, because I actually really enjoy what I have done and achieved in my life. And I think Malaysia is just too small for me. [laughter]

Gretchen Roe: 00:46:05.596
Well, so that’s really interesting. So your children now are no longer 9 and 11. So [crosstalk]–

Rowena Scherer: 00:46:11.308
Yeah, they are 17 and 20.

Gretchen Roe: 00:46:13.871
17 and 20. So entirely different point of view than they had when you began this adventure for them. So what did they think of what you’re doing?

Rowena Scherer: 00:46:28.979
I hope they’re proud of it and they know why I’m doing it. I have a very supportive family. So I couldn’t have done this without my husband. I mean, it’s harder than anything. I think it’s harder than working for somebody is to work for yourself. Entrepreneurship is the hardest thing. You got to love what you do. And you’re not responsible for a lot of people. I have employees under me, right? I have to make sure that we continue growing. We continue to actually make sales. So it is hard, but it’s so fulfilling. And now with my son, even though he’s in college, he’s thinking about businesses. He’s now a co-founder of a city bike at Middlebury. I mean, he’s thinking about how to get money to get it started. So it’s hard. And so I hope that I’m encouraging them to try different things. And I always said there is no one road, right? There’s multiple. Journey is your journey. If you take it– if you think this is the road, reassess in a few years. If it’s not working out, it’s fine. You got to be happy.

Gretchen Roe: 00:47:45.473
And I think you’ve said something that’s very important that parents probably need to recognize, particularly moms. That there is no one road. There’s no one road to an education. There’s no one road to adulthood. We have to learn to practice the art of flexibility. And I think I think you’ve personified that so well, particularly in the things that you have done. So if I’m a parent and I have listened to our conversation, what should I do first? Guide me into where should I go and how should I begin.

Rowena Scherer: 00:48:20.016
Okay. If you really want to take this step of exploring the world through food, two options, right? You can buy the cookbook, which I think it’ll be great way to start. Or you could try eat2explore, which is eat, number 2, explore, which I will give you the access, Gretchen. And just start with a country that you’ve heard of, that you’re curious about, right? And maybe get your kids to be involved. Now, what country should we– let’s show the map and pick the country that you’re curious about, and start from there. And the reason why eat2explore has a subscription where you try different country every month and it comes to you a different country, it just gives you an opportunity. And we already done the work, right? So you can do it together with your child, one country at a time. And slowly and surely, not just the culinary taste and expansion of your palate, and you’re learning a life skill, you’re going to learn more and see how connected our world is. And all this country has history and immigrants and people that are very similar.

Gretchen Roe: 00:49:33.946
Absolutely. That makes a tremendous amount of difference. Okay. So we are almost at the top of the hour. What should I have asked you that I have not asked?

Rowena Scherer: 00:49:44.451
Let me think. I think you asked everything. I’m just thinking out loud. No. I hope some of you will try us, eat2explore. And maybe check out our YouTube live, May 15– starting my first one, making Ethiopia–

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:03.766
So are you going to do those the middle of every month then?

Rowena Scherer: 00:50:06.599
It’s third Wednesday of every month.

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:10.320
The third Wednesday. Okay.

Rowena Scherer: 00:50:11.300
Third Wednesday of every month at 6:00 PM Eastern. And this month, because Ethiopia– it’s all the featured countries. So this month is Ethiopia. And we have different months just based on the schedule. We’re making dora wat, so.

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:29.749
Okay. All right. That sounds exciting. I’ll be on a plane that day, but I think that would be–

Rowena Scherer: 00:50:37.502
Well, it’ll be recorded, so you can watch it afterward.

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:40.867
Okay. And your YouTube channel is also eat2explore–

Rowena Scherer: 00:50:44.431
At eat2explore. It’s also eat, number 2, explore.

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:48.176
Okay. Wonderful. That sounds great. I want to thank you for joining me for this conversation. This was amazing. As much as I love food, we’ve now made seven different recipes out of the book.

Rowena Scherer: 00:51:02.649
And?

Gretchen Roe: 00:51:03.149
And I have to tell you, as a parent, this was phenomenally easy. As a parent who cooks with her kids all the time– now, I wasn’t cooking with little kids, but we all loved the fact that the recipes were step by step. They had pictures to them. I didn’t feel like I was tossed into the deep end of the sea as far as knowing what to do. And the other thing I love that you have done is you’ve sourced them with ingredients that I can mostly find. I mean, I had to go– we had to learn about cassareep, but that wouldn’t be something I would necessarily need to make a recipe work in here. And that, to me, was really brilliant, that you have made these recipes in such a way that as a mom with a kitchen – and I have cornstarch, and I have flour, and I have sugar – I can make these recipes work.

Rowena Scherer: 00:51:57.580
Right. Oh, one thing to add. Actually forgot. So if you follow the steps, first thing first, check your pantry, right? Before you go grocery shopping, don’t buy repeats. I’ve done many mistakes like that. Go to your pantry and your fridge and say, “Well, what do we have? And then what else we will need?”

Gretchen Roe: 00:52:15.383
There you go. That, in and of itself, is great advice. Then you don’t have four bottles of basil sitting on your shelf like I have right now, so. Thank you so much for spending this time with me. This was a marvelous experience.

Rowena Scherer: 00:52:30.368
Thank you, Gretchen, for having me.

Gretchen Roe: 00:52:31.049
I’m looking forward to learning more. And the third Wednesday at 6:00 PM. So that will be May 15th. Join her. It’ll be worth every minute of it.

Rowena Scherer: 00:52:43.140
Thank you.

Gretchen Roe: 00:52:43.739
Thank you so much for your time.

Rowena Scherer: 00:52:44.673
Thanks so much.

Gretchen Roe: 00:52:45.206
Take care. We’ll talk again soon. Bye-bye.

Rowena Scherer: 00:52:47.446
Bye. Gretchen Roe: 00:52:49.303
I want to thank everyone for joining us today. This is Gretchen Roe for the Demme Learning Show. You can access the show notes and watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show or on our YouTube channel. Be sure to rate, review, follow, or subscribe wherever you may be hearing this, especially if you really enjoyed it. And we’ll look forward to coming into your living room again soon.

[music]