Gretchen Roe: 00:00:05.210
[music] Welcome to The Demme Learning Show. Our mission here is to help families stay in the learning journey wherever it takes them. This bonus episode was previously recorded as a webinar and was not created with the audio listener in mind. We hope you will find value in today’s episode. Hi, everybody. Welcome. It is my great pleasure to welcome these two lovely ladies, colleagues of mine, today to talk about 10 things you need to do to be successfully homeschooling high school. And frankly, we had so many people register for this event. I know that we are communing with our peeps, so to speak, when we’re talking to people about, “What do I do? What does this look like?” I love the fact that so many of you are not yet here, and you’re planning proactively. And that, by definition, is the thought of a homeschool mom because we have to plan proactively, do we not? We’re here today to give you some encouragement, some guidance, some things to think about. This is not the end of the conversation. We want you to know that this should be an ongoing conversation between you and your high school students throughout their journey. So toward that end, my name is Gretchen Roe. My husband and I have homeschooled six children for 21 years. Five of those are now college graduates. And I used to be able to say they don’t live with me, but my youngest moved home six months ago. And we’re delighted to have her here for a little while. Our youngest is a junior in high school, so much of what I will relate today is something we are in the middle of what we are going through as far as the high school experience. The one thing I can say as the parent of five high school graduates, not one journey was equivalent. Every one of them was different. Every one of them was their own. And it’s up to you to learn to adapt to each child as they walk this path. That having been said, Amanda, would you please introduce yourself, and then – we’ll go alphabetically – Jody, I’ll ask you to introduce after Amanda.

Amanda Capps: 00:02:15.175
Sure. I’m thrilled to be here today, and I love collaborating with both of these ladies. I am Amanda Capps. I am, currently, a customer support representative for Demme Learning and have been in that role for the last 12 years. I have eight children, and I’m mostly sane, despite that fact, and have graduated one and have seven coming up behind her. So this has been a recent experience of mine and something we have recently gone through. So I just hope to add some pointers and expertise to the discussion.

Gretchen Roe: 00:02:53.644
Jody?

Jody Scott: 00:02:56.042

I’m Jody Scott, and I work in customer support with Amanda. And I have six children, five of whom I’ve graduated. And I’ve been homeschooling for 25 years now. And my youngest, it will be a junior in high school. So we are looking at colleges, and we’re doing all of that prep. And I also have my number five graduating from college this week.

Gretchen Roe: 00:03:24.372
Woo. That’s so awesome. I didn’t know that, Jody. How did I miss that? That’s terrific. So we’re bringing a lot of experience to the table for you, guys, today. We have lots of things to talk about. We have some terrific notes, and we’re going to go back and forth through all of those notes. As we get started, Amanda, as the parent of the most recent transcript graduate, so to speak, can you talk about maybe two or three things that surprised you in the transcript preparation process, things that you weren’t expecting, but you were really glad you had prepared for?

Amanda Capps: 00:04:04.882
So, I think one of the things that kind of surprised me is how quickly it was upon me. [laughter] I mean, if I’m being really gut-level honest, it’s like, “Wait a minute, what transcripts?” Like, “I have to think about this now.” Because I mean, I think when you have, one, a large family with multiple ages, and two, you think you’re going to be homeschooling forever, and you realize there really is an end and there is a destination with these kids. And that is hard sometimes to process as a parent. Maybe you’re not ready emotionally for that to be the place that you’re at. So I would say that was probably my first real, like, “Wait a minute, how is it time? How is this– time to do this?” And then second of all, I started kind of looking around and talking to other moms who had graduated kids to kind of get their feedback and to get some perspective and to kind of know what track we should follow. Here in the state of Arkansas, which is where I am from, there is a state organization who has a transcripting service. So, I will say personally, my delving into transcripts was actually really easy because that organization has really done a lot of the legwork for homeschool parents in Arkansas. So, I can say that that was a real amazing thing to find out and a great relief to me, to know, wow, there’s really something already awesome and in place, then I don’t have to reinvent the wheel. I’m trying to think if there was anything else major. I think really the only other thing that caused a major like, “Oh, wow, I didn’t think about that.” One of the things I personally come from is I’m a second-generation homeschooler. So I was homeschooled all the way through, and I knew how my graduation experience was, but it was not a public school or private school graduating experience. So, all I had was my own experience to draw on. And it was very different from the experience my daughter had because, obviously, there was a lot of time that transpired between those two events, [laughter] if I’m being honest. And so, really, the other surprise came when we were actually applying to colleges and actually looking at the colleges and seeing what it was they were looking for versus what a transcript is about. And there can be some real differences there. So I think those were probably the biggest surprises I encountered.

Gretchen Roe: 00:06:48.322
So, Jody, could you talk a little bit about having the most number of high school graduates? Can you talk a little bit about what the expectations are? And Jody’s a ringer, you guys, because she’s also a homeschool evaluator. So she helps parents in this process with some degree of frequency. So, when you have a parent who has a rising ninth grader, what’s the first advice you give them? What direction do you send them in?

Jody Scott: 00:07:18.868
That’s a great question. And you really do need to– in that middle school time, start thinking about that. And you need to start with the end in mind and go back from there. So, what is your goal? What are you moving towards? And if you’re not sure, I always– and even if you think you’re sure, I always tell parents, do not limit their options because things can turn on a dime, junior or senior year. And if you have limited their options because maybe you didn’t have them do a foreign language, and that will be required on a college for college entrance then they’re in a difficult place and it breaks your heart when they’re in that place. And so I always say, don’t limit your options. Take the courses you would need. Even if you think you’re not going to college, take them so you’re prepared for that plot twist should it come. But they definitely need to start researching. Like Amanda said, it’s not just about what the state will require to graduate. It’s about what about those colleges and what they require. So we start having those conversations, talking about the community service, talking about the extracurricular activities and leadership and just what are your goals? Where do you want to be four years from now and getting your ducks in a row?

Gretchen Roe: 00:08:58.561
Yep. And that really is our first tip, and that is goal setting. If you have not done that, if that’s something you’ve not practiced, that was something that we were seasoned at practicing at our household. But you know what? I talk to homeschool families all the time that have not even thought about that. The first thing I would do is sit down with your student and say, “Are you looking at a college experience? Do you think you want to go to college?” Now, I will tell you in my homeschooling years, my kids range in age from 36 next week to 16. And my point of view about college, about its requirements, about my preparation for my children’s college experiences changed drastically between my eldest and now my youngest. And one of those changes was when my eldest daughter was 16, I said, “You will go to college. I don’t care where you go.” I didn’t even care what she was going to major in more or less. But I said she would go to college because I felt like that was a ticket punch at the time. And I have changed my tune on that. And my thoughts now are you will go to college if you can do it debt-free because I think the debt crisis in this country is an enormous driving point. Now, that having been said, Jodie made an exceedingly important point and Amanda alluded to it. And that is keep your options open. You don’t know with this rising ninth grader what they’re going to want to do four years from now. So don’t close any doors. And that kind of brings us to our second point, which is regardless of the state you are in, you have to know what the graduation requirements are. Do you have to deliver those as a homeschooler in the same way that they are required to be delivered as a public schooler? Maybe not. So it would behoove you to do some research. And Jody, I know that you had talked a little bit about this. So can you talk about how HSLDA can support parents in that process?

Jody Scott: 00:11:11.431
I would be happy too. I am a big advocate for HSLDA because they support homeschool parents. They have advocated for us tirelessly. And if you don’t know anything about them, definitely look them up. There are some free resources on their site. You can choose your state and see exactly what your state requires. They articulate it very clearly what each state requires. And when you join, they actually also have some free templates for transcripts. And if you join, you actually can get some additional resources that would be included with your membership. There’s also a transcript service that costs a little bit less for members. And members also have access to consultants that can help talk you through these things. And they’ll know, “Oh, okay, you’re from Pennsylvania. So let’s look at Pennsylvania.” And they know the questions to ask. Sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know. So we don’t even know what to ask. Yeah, so if you’re in that place, it’s great to talk to someone like that because they will know what you should be asking. And they can help you through the process.

Gretchen Roe: 00:12:35.950
And you know what? I really like that. They will know what questions you should be asking. I had the opportunity this weekend to read this book. This is by Anne Caraco. And she has a website called It’s Not That Hard to Homeschool. And that will come to you in the show notes. But I have to tell you, I loved this book. It was a quick read. It took me a little over an hour to read it. And of course, I was looking for things. So I was looking for her advice. And her advice lines up with a lot of the conversation that Amanda and Jodie and I had. And one of the things that she said is, “How much is enough?” and, “What is important?” And so Amanda, I want to circle back to you. This is our point number three for you guys, of our 10 points is do you need four years of math? We’ve talked about this a little bit, Amanda. Can you outline how a parent would weigh what is a sufficient amount of anything, not just math, but.

Amanda Capps: 00:13:37.800
Absolutely. So this is a great question because I think this is where most parents get a little bit off track and maybe overwhelm themselves and their students because we feel like, “Oh, no. We do have an end date. We have a certain amount of things to get done. What can I count? What can’t I count? Are we doing enough? Are we not doing enough?” So this is where I would love to just give you guys a moment and say, “Breathe,” because you’re probably doing more than you need to do already. But it is a good time to kind of take a look, evaluate, “Okay, what have we completed? What do we still need to complete?” And again, there’s a ton of information out on the web now. I mean, before, you used to have to make phone calls, and you used to have to go in person to places to have these conversations with admittance counselors and different people. And now it’s literally at your fingertips right on your computer. Most of the college entrance exams that my daughter submitted were all done online. And she was immediately assigned a person from the school who was a school representative who answered any questions that she had and was available to her. And she had their personal cell phone number, their email address, and those types of things. So there’s a lot of help and support to guide you through those questions and those things. But what I would say is they don’t finish full curriculums in public school. It is quality over quantity, folks, at this point. At this point in the game, you need to make sure that your student is well read, able to effectively communicate, effectively write, and express themselves and express their ideas. Yes, foreign language is a requirement in some states and in some schools. But again, there are so many great apps and classes and things available in the community some parents might want to look at, and if that is available in your state, great is dual enrollment. Sometimes you can have a lot of stress taken off of you through the high school years by simply finding out if your community college offers a dual enrollment program and they can literally graduate high school with an AA and then go on into their specific career choice and take the specific classes that they need to then achieve that degree. So there are so many options, but again, you’ve got to start asking these questions early enough to avail yourself of the available options.

Gretchen Roe: 00:16:39.325
I think that’s a good piece of advice is this doesn’t happen overnight, but it seems like it does. And I think all three of us can testify to the fact that it seemed like graduation was upon us instantaneously. And that’s not really how it happens. But one of the things that you can do as a parent to alleviate your own stress is to start having conversations. Does your student want a college experience? Where do they think they want to go? Are you a graduate of a school that they aspire to attend? Now would be the time for you to figure out what the admission requirements are to that school. Is there a school that they have pined to attend since they were eight years old? Now would be the time to figure out what the admission requirements are. Do you have to sing exactly to that sheet of music? No. But not knowing those admission requirements does handicap you a little bit. And you’d be amazed at how much anxiety that will alleviate if you know what the expectations are. And that can be a tremendous benefit to you as the parent. Because remember, you’re the captain of this ship, but the ship is going to be set sail by your child. So it’s up to you to fill their sails and help them do that successfully. We’ve talked about checking the college requirements. Know that that plan that you create is going to have some changes to it. And if you’re prepared to calmly deal with the fact that your student will change their mind more than once in this four-year process, then you can learn to roll with it. I had a conversation in Cincinnati with a mom who was absolutely devastated because she was a graduate of a prestigious Ohio school, and that she’ll remain nameless. And she had always, always planned that her son would attend there. And he was graduating in May this month. And two months ago, he said, I don’t want to go there to college. And mom had no plan B. And she was absolutely beside herself. So what we’re encouraging you here is make sure you have plan B, C, D, all the way along the way, because I think all three of us could say nothing turns out the way we expect it to. It always turns out better, but not the way you expect. So, Jody, I would like for you to be able to answer this question for our parents, which I think was really terrific. And it said, “What would be the basic framework that we would need for picking classes to include in a high school education?” And I know as a reviewer, you often answer this question for families, so.

Jody Scott: 00:19:33.915
Sure. You want to take a look at what your state requires, but within that framework. So to graduate, they will say you need three credits of math, four credits of English, and it will go on like that. Within that framework, there’s wiggle room to make some choices. With history, there’s a little wiggle room, but some require– I know with my state Pennsylvania there’re certain courses even that they require. And so that helps you to make your choice, actually, because it tells you what you need to do. But I will say within that framework, not everything has to be rigorous. You don’t have to take a rigorous biology course while you’re taking a rigorous Algebra II course, while you’re taking a rigorous health course or whatever it might be. You don’t have to go after that rigor all the time I guess is what I’m saying. There are some easy A’s and that’s okay. I know that there’re also electives. I tend to let my child drive the elective area and what they want to study with those elective credits. And as far as they need music and art, but there’s some wiggle room inside of that too, which is is the art more art appreciation, art history, or is it actually drawing and painting, whatever my child happens to be interested in. But I begin with what my state requires. And then I fill in from there. And actually, we end up with more credits than the state requires because of other things that we want to take as well. But you have to– because we answer to the state, most of us do, most of us live in states we have to answer to, that’s why I just start with that framework.

Gretchen Roe: 00:21:47.101
Now we did have a question that I thought was really interesting, and that was deciding on a public school diploma versus a homeschool diploma or a GED. And one of the things I think is really important for parents to understand is homeschooling in the US is legal in all 50 states, and you do not have to have a GED. You as the parent are legally gifted with the opportunity to provide your student with a transcript and with a diploma. And that has to be accepted. Now I have just seen all over the place. I am on the HSLDA’s newsletter. And just last week, I read that there was a young man who had chosen the military as a career. He was a homeschool graduate, spent 10 years in the military, and then was looking to enroll in a college on the West Coast. And that college said, “Oh, you have a homeschool diploma, not a GED. You’ll have to go get a GED to enroll.” And that young man’s family had been part of HSLDA 10 years ago. And they reached back out to HSLDA and HSLDA was able to resolve that with a phone call and a letter, and that young man was accepted to the school of his choice.

Gretchen Roe: 00:23:11.800
So I think it’s very important for you to understand the legalities around the requirements. And where you live, your legalities are going to be different. So the requirements where I live now in North Carolina are different than the requirements where I homeschooled my children, which was in Maryland. Amanda’s requirements are different than Jodi’s requirements. All of us have to be able to know what those requirements are. And in this instance, ignorance is not bliss. We encourage you to go find that out. Amanda, I want to turn my attention now to those extracurriculars. You had a daughter who was musically inclined. So how did you account for that?

Amanda Capps: 00:23:54.672
So that is a great question. So she was involved in some community college and youth orchestras So you can absolutely count those as experiences. She also had the opportunity to audition for and travel with a honor’s society youth orchestra, which actually took her to Carnegie Hall and– and to Sydney, Australia. So let me just say, there are amazing opportunities when you are a homeschooler. But on the flip side, interestingly enough, you can’t compete in the state of Arkansas in– as an all-state musician because they feel like the homeschoolers have an unfair advantage. Her private instructor has been battling that and the board of that organization for years, trying to get that revoked. But yet that is still something that is happening within the state of Arkansas because they basically say, “Oh, well, she could just not do anything academic and focus all of her time on practicing her instrument, and it’s going to give her an unfair advantage,” which we all know is absolutely ludicrous. But until the administration changes, that is probably not going to change. And so that, unfortunately, really hampers scholarship opportunities within our particular state. You still have the opportunity to go and audition specifically at– at a school or that type of scenario. But interestingly enough, when you talk about changing gears, even though Cassie has been playing music since she was four, and we were very invested in, that is her talent, that is her track, she’s not going to college for music. Of course not [laughter]. But she did find through music that she loves to travel, and she’s an incredibly gifted linguist and an incredibly gifted writer. And so I wouldn’t be surprised to see something along the lines of journalism or English in her future.

Gretchen Roe: 00:26:06.821
Absolutely. And I think that is the– probably the single hardest lesson for me to learn is to watch my children, watch their talents evolve in high school, and then they get to college and say, “Well, I don’t intend to do that.” My eldest son was a master musician, a– a competitive pianist all through high school, and told us he intended to go to college to study piano until he got his master musician certificate at the age of 17 and said, “Oh, no, no, no. College, music, no. Why would I– why would I major in what I found solace and comfort in? I wouldn’t want to make that my job,” which I think is very interesting because you just don’t know the paths your children are ultimately going to launch themselves upon. We did have an interesting question. Jody, I’m going to let you answer this one. A parent wanted to know about doubling up on math, and I know that– that Steve does have some specific suggestions about that. But what are the kinds of things that a parent before they chose to double up on math credits in school? What are the things you would want their student to have in place as far as study skills and those kinds of things?

Jody Scott: 00:27:26.638
That would be a very rare scenario that I think a student should do that. Maybe Amanda could speak more on that because I know Amanda does give some support to upper level math. But as far as from an evaluator’s perspective, I’ve only seen that happen once successfully. And the person was extremely talented and gifted in math, and– but it was her– she had a lot of discipline. She was very disciplined. Her time management was very good. And it was being driven by the student, not the parent. And so that made all the difference in the world in attempting something like that. And in her case, she moved through. She didn’t do two simultaneously. She did one in one semester, one in another semester. So that’s a little bit different than maybe what you’re speaking about, I’m not sure.

Gretchen Roe: 00:28:30.147
And I think that that’s true. One of my children, my fifth child, actually my dyslexic child, was the one who decided he wanted to double up on math in high school. And so he actually did geometry and algebra two simultaneously. And he had the wherewithal to be able to split those two disciplines. He could do one in the morning and one in the afternoon. And that was a successful experience for him. It’s not always. And now is the time– with a rising ninth grader if you have a child who has mathematical deficits or you as the parent just think that math is more difficult for them, now’s the time for you to figure out where the wheels aren’t tightly screwed onto their wagon mathematically and to help make that happen. Amanda, I know you get these phone calls on the reg. Can you talk a little bit about some of the things parents might want to look for to make sure that their kids have a solid foundation in so that they can be successful in high school math?

Amanda Capps: 00:29:36.333
Sure. So sometimes doubling up does need to happen, just depending on what the situation is. I mean, sometimes you’re coming out of a situation, and you realize we have gaps and we need to make up ground. And so we may move through a level very quickly. And we do have fast track options to help a parent with that particular scenario, and we do support that particular scenario. There are other times where we’re running out of time. Maybe we are a freshman, a sophomore, a junior, and either no fault of your own or life circumstances have just thrown a curveball. And so I’ve seen many different scenarios where that has been the case. And so you can really– I’d love to tell the home schoolers, you’re never really behind. It’s never one of those scenarios where you cannot make up for lost time. You just have to be very intentional about how you do it. And you have to structure it in a very specific way so that you are not in any way missing or gapping your student, and they are going to still be able to progress and count those credits. And we do have strategies and ways to do that.

Gretchen Roe: 00:31:11.370
I think one of the things that is important, and this really is– I’m hopping around in my bullet points now. You guys will get those in the show notes so you can follow them in sequential order then. But one of the things that’s really important is not to close any doors. Don’t make assumptions that the student sitting in front of you at 13 is not mathematically capable because there is something really to be said for that prefrontal cortex development. And you’d be amazed at what kids are capable of doing once those neurons finally get it together. And I know, Jodie, you’ve had that scenario in your own family. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that and how that changes as they mature.

Jody Scott: 00:31:54.940
I actually did have that scenario with one of my sons. I won’t mention the name, but he struggled. he seriously struggled through math. And from the time he was little, actually, we spent two years in beta, our second grade math. And after that, he said, “This is so great. We should take two years to do every level.” And obviously, that is not– we couldn’t do that. But we kept moving. We did math year round for him because he needed to move very slowly. So in an attempt to keep him where with the end in mind, keep him where he should be. We did math year round and we also didn’t want him to lose ground. That particular child was so important. We never took off more than two weeks because we would go tumbling backwards. So very slowly, very slowly, by doing math year rounds, using that slight edge, he got inched a little closer, a little closer, but still continued to struggle. And in high school, he decided he wanted to suddenly he was a little bit older, junior year, and he wanted to pour it on a little bit more. And he did graduate with the needed credits. He actually went on to a two-year school.

Jody Scott: 00:33:40.351
And my advice to him was go to that study center early and often. And he did, to his credit, he listened to that advice, went to the studies center early and often, and he ended up going into engineering. He was doing all this very complicated stuff he brought to me. And I said, do this is math? He goes, “I know.” And it makes sense. And I thought I would have never, I would have put him in this little box. I mean, I would have never in a million years thought if someone had brought me some of the work he was doing in college and said, he will be doing this and doing it well. And he got to the point where he was tutoring other kids. And it just blew my mind. He was a late bloomer academically, but you’re right, Gretchen. There is so much to that brain development. And you just– don’t count them out.

Gretchen Roe: 00:34:42.590
Absolutely. And I think that’s one of the things that we as parents need to do for our children is to frame that the cup is half full. Don’t discount what they are capable of doing. Toward that end, we’ve talked and focused on academics, and we’ve touched a little bit on extracurriculars. But what are the kinds of things that a student needs to have in order to be a well-rounded student? Because it’s not just grades, folks. It also is, what have they done community service-wise? What have they been able to experience outside of the academics that makes them a well-rounded student? Start capturing those kinds of things now because you’ll be able to reflect those on a transcript. And if you can’t reflect them on a transcript, there may be places where they will fit nicely into a college application process. For instance, do you have a student who’s participating in debate? Make sure that you’re logging those hours. Debate can be a high school credit as an elective. It can also be reflected in experience on a transcript for a college application. And it can make a tremendous amount of difference for your student.

Gretchen Roe: 00:36:03.172
The other thing I would encourage you to do is to figure out where you could find the opportunity for your student to gain experience in a volunteer capacity. And one of those that I can relate personally is, one of my sons thought he might be interested in doing something with computers. So he started, in his junior year volunteering, working for a little local computer firm, doing just simple computer repairs. And then we took that. And in his senior year, we made that an internship. So we got college credit for it. Typically, the thumbnail for credit is 120 of invested hours. So he had to have 120 hours that year for us to be able to count that on his high school transcript as an internship. And we decided we wanted to have some sort of culmination for that internship. So we had to write a paper that, what did you learn? And interestingly enough, his paper wasn’t entirely focused on computer. It was focused on, here’s what he would change if he wanted to improve that company’s outreach into the community. And so it gave him the opportunity. And the business owner benefited from what Duncan was able to contribute for him, but it also solidified for Duncan that computers were indeed what he wanted to do in college. And being able to do that made an enormous amount of difference for him long term. So I encourage you to look out into the community and see what kinds of things that you can find. Amanda has made a tremendous observation here about study skills are not automatic. They are learned. So Amanda, can you talk a little bit about teaching a student to manage their time is not something that happens by accident. It’s very intentional. So can you talk a little bit about that? And Jody, if you have opinions about that when Amanda’s done, please feel free to chime in.

Amanda Capps: 00:38:09.083
So it’s interesting. We’re kind of going through a transition in our family right now because I have two kiddos who actually really struggle. One is ADD and one is ADHD. And so time management is a real challenge for these kids. Emotional intelligence, executive function, and time management. Those are all areas that really tend to lack for kiddos that are brain wired that way. So for my son, that means he wears a watch. He is constantly checking his watch to make sure that he is staying on task, and he’s very driven that way. And then my daughter is a whole nother animal. I mean, she doesn’t really get moving and put thoughts together until about 9:00 AM. If I forced her to try to do intense academics right off the bat, it’s not going to go well. I’m wasting my time. I’m wasting her time. But here’s the thing: you can’t just say, “Oh, well, this is just how this person is. And so we can’t have any structure and we can’t follow a clock or time limits on anything. So part of my job as her parent is to help her and put things in place that help clue her into her areas of struggle.

Amanda Capps: 00:39:31.557
And so we all have that kid who can take the 10-minute task and make it last for three hours. And it’s agonizing for us and it’s agonizing for them a lot of times. And so sometimes having those conversations and going, “Okay, wait a minute. This is unacceptable. This is taking longer than it should.” And so what is really going on here? Is it taking this long because we just don’t like it and we’re dragging it out? She can put on music, and pretty soon, she’s bebopping into the music. And it’s very lackadaisically what’s actually the output that is happening. [laughter] So I have to know for her that music is going to slow her down; for my son, it motivates him. He actually can focus better when there’s some background noise. So this is a key opportunity to really observe your students and really say, “Okay, what makes them tick? How are they wired? Where are the struggles and the deficits? What things do we need to address? What conversations do we need to have?” Because, yeah, as a parent, you’re going, “Oh, my gosh, if she acts like this at a job, she’s going to get fired. She’s not going to be able to hold down a job. She’s going to be living in my basement for the rest of her life. And we’re not going to get anywhere with this.” But on the other hand, I have seen so many amazing opportunities where parents have really plugged into what interests their kids. And, for example, we had some good friends who– they had a mutt that they adopted from a local shelter. And this girl looked up what it would take to put him through being a support dog. She trained him, he got the certification, and she started going to local nursing homes and taking that dog as a support dog and working with the residents of that nursing home. And it was such a rich and wonderful experience for both that child and the residents of that nursing home. And it was a beautiful mix. And I can totally see this kid ending up doing something in social services or something in community like that. And so don’t necessarily downplay, “Oh, this looks like a harebrained idea,” but equip them with the tools that they need to maybe find out, “Oh, yes, I’m really good at this,” or, “Maybe this isn’t really a good fit, and we need to change gears and put that time– investing it somewhere else.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:42:05.671
So, Jodie, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about those conversations you had with your high-schoolers to help them hone their craft, so to speak, decide what things that they were good at and what might be something for them to look at it as a potential career choice.

Jody Scott: 00:42:25.352
Were they conversations, or the kids were talking and I was biting my tongue? [laughter]

Gretchen Roe: 00:42:34.853
A little both, a little bit of both.

Jody Scott: 00:42:36.825
I’m not sure about it.

Jody Scott: 00:42:38.988
Because I think you have to stay open. And when you’re having conversations, we have to be good listeners. Their ideas, their thoughts, all of it’s evolving. They’re processing sometimes out loud. Sometimes we don’t know how they’re processing because it’s internal. It’s a lot for them to work through. And we need to be that safe place, that safe place to throw out a crazy idea, that safe place to fail, that safe place to say, “I don’t know,” or, “I’m scared,” or, “I’m confused.” So, I think, more than anything, we need to be good listeners. Sometimes we need to bite our tongues and listen more than we speak, here are their ideas, and ask good questions. I often found that when I told them things, they didn’t hear it, but when I would draw things out of them, it was different. So you can ask, “So what is it about that that you like?” And just ask a lot of questions to draw things out of them. And, overall, high high school is a great time to connect. I know Amanda said, having conversations.

Jody Scott: 00:44:08.778
It’s a great time to connect with your student to– you’re transitioning; your parenting journey is transitioning; they’re transitioning. And it can be kind of a difficult dance at times, and you step on each other’s toes. And so it’s kind of a clumsy dance to really, as we learn to let go, and they learn to step in and step up. But our goal is that they would be employable like Amanda talked about, that they would be marriageable, that they would be contributing members of society. And it’s not what I think it looks like. God has a plan and a purpose for their life. And we need to have our hands open, our hearts open, and our minds open to what God might have for them.

Gretchen Roe: 00:45:03.430
I knew I could trust Jody to say that because I love that hands open, hearts open, minds open. It really does make a tremendous amount of difference. And you would be surprised. I know it feels, when you have a teenager in the household, like they’re not listening to a thing you say, but you’d be amazed how much they’re catching. We want to recommend that you start with a notebook. Doesn’t have to be a fancy one, just a simple notebook where you can start taking notes. And your notes can be the things that they say, the things they aspire to. One of the things I want to circle back around to is those extracurricular things. So how do you take the things your children love and account for them on a transcript? I’ll give you an example. Two of my daughters were ardent horsewomen. And I have to tell you, for several years, I pitched a lot of horse apples because I wanted to be there with my kids when they went to the barn at 5:00 AM, which was kind of ugly. But then when we got to high school, I thought, wait, we’re investing 20, 25 hours a week at the barn. How do we get some quid pro quo here that can put it on a high school transcript? And the way that we did that is we looked up what the requirements were for a credit in animal husbandry. And both of those, both of my daughters got credits in high school for animal husbandry for what they saw as a hobby but what I saw as a potential transcript opportunity. So I want to encourage you as parents to recognize that not everything that your student does has to come out of a book to be counted as high school credit. Amanda, can you talk a little bit more about that? I know that I’ve hit the sweet spot for you as far as what you were able to do with Cassie, so.

Amanda Capps: 00:46:56.811
Oh yeah. So there are so many opportunities. There are local clubs. 4-H is a great example of something to get involved in. When I was in high school, I actually, on a whim, somebody said, “Oh, well have you ever entered the 4-H photography competition?” And I had a photograph that I entered, and I actually won at the local level and at the state level. And I literally had never even thought about taking something like photography, which was literally just kind of a side pastime or a hobby for me. And actually, wait, there’s judging and money and titles involved in that type of thing. So I think the biggest thing is get outside of a box. Get outside of the thinking that the only thing that happens educationally is within a book or within the four walls of your home or in the four walls of a co-op or those more structured places and look at all of the ways. And like you said, I mean, do a little research. Look at some of the things out there. What counts as an elective? How many hours does it have to be? Look at the timeframe and go with that. Both of my girls had the opportunity to work for my sister at young ages because it was a family business. A child can work a lot younger when it is for family versus being able to go out into the workforce without some sort of proper documentation or however you want to put that. And so they both learned dog grooming and they absolutely knew that they did not want to do that for their entire lives because it is very difficult, very dirty, very hard work. But they got invaluable skills, and we were able to count some of those things on their experiences. And work experience is a great one. I mean, colleges want to see, “Have you worked? Have you done things out in the community? What are the things that you’re doing outside of academics?” Because I think as homeschoolers, a lot of times we just really narrowly hone in on academic, academic, academic, and we kind of beat that to a pulp. And yet there are so many rich and enriching experiences that can absolutely be counted for education.

Gretchen Roe: 00:49:22.998
Jody, your thoughts?

Jody Scott: 00:49:27.509
I completely agree. I think that, while the academic is important and while that needs to be in place, we’re looking to shape the whole person. And we want to expose them to new things. And we want to stretch them. And we want them to be able to pursue their interests. And sometimes the better choice maybe doesn’t even make sense on paper. Maybe there’s this academic camp, and he could really excel there or whatever. But then there’s also a service opportunity. And you know how that will impact his heart, how that will grow his compassion, how that will grow his emotional intelligence. And we also have to think privately, “What is our goal for our child? What kind of person do we want them to be? What do we want their relationships to look like? What do we want them to choose to do, maybe, in their free time? And how do we want them to steward their talents, steward their time, and steward their resources? And how are we modeling that for them? Are we modeling the priorities that we want them to ultimately have in life?”

Gretchen Roe: 00:50:59.936
I love that. “Modeling the priorities that we want them to have in life.” And that really is our goal, right, with all of our high school students is we want them to march forward into adulthood and be successful. One of the things I think that is really important to recognize is, you’re going to come up with some great plans, and they aren’t going to work out. Expect that. If you can be the duck on the water, whose feet might be pedaling, but you look smooth, then you become the safe haven for your student as they’re trying to figure out what they are trying to do. And one of the things that I always remember is my eldest son was exceedingly adept at science. He just got it. He read it once. He understood it. So he went off to college, majoring in biology. And he came home his second semester of college grumbling and grousing because he really hated what he was doing. Now he had a 4.0. He was knocking it out of the park he hated what he was majoring in. And I said, “Why are you majoring in that?” And he said, “Because I know I can get a job.” And I’m here to tell you, folks, that that’s the dumbest reason to get a college degree ever. Because if your heart is not in the process, you’ll never be satisfied with what you’re doing. So I asked him at the time, if job was not an issue and you weren’t concerned with paying for your college experiences, what would you major in? And he said, well, I’d really like to major in graphic design. But there’s a million graphic designers out there. And I said, well, do you think you could be good at that? And he said, yeah, maybe. So I’m truncating a conversation that lasted an entire weekend. And the bottom line was he went back to school and he changed his major, started his own business, finished school in three years. Moreover, we did not pay for his school. He paid for it himself through the proceeds of his own business. So the reason I tell you this story is not because we’re all that, but because the lesson that he taught me was things change. And what you think you might want to do might not be what you want to do a year from now. So it’s up to us to continue to frame those conversations as open-ended conversations. And I think, Amanda, you said it well early on about the fact that we want to keep all those doors open. So we are almost to the bottom of the hour. Can you provide your closing thoughts for our families? We have lots of notes for you this time. So the show notes will be very complete and we’ll outline for you all 10 things that we have covered here today. But Amanda, will you give us some closing thoughts? And then Jody, I’ll hand it over to you, and then I’ll conclude.

Amanda Capps: 00:53:55.065
Sure. And what I’m going to share is very personal, because it’s a little bit of my story. I was a homeschool high school graduate. I wanted to be a wife and a mother from the time I can remember. And that is what I aspired to. So I was definitely not college-oriented. And that was fine. And my parents were completely supportive of that. And I married my high school sweetheart. And we started a family. And he started a business. And I was very involved in the administrative part of that business for our lives because that was where my strengths lie and where he was good at doing the work, right? So it was the perfect partnership. But then he died. And I was left with two little girls all by myself. And I knew I had to be able to do whatever it took to take care of them. And so those skills landed me at Debbie Learning. And my background in the curriculum and so just goes to show you think you have your future figured out. You think you have a plan. You think you know the way it’s going to end and you don’t. God has very different ideas sometimes and sometimes our paths are very painful and sometimes they’re not resembling even remotely what we expected. And yet he’s there and he guides and he protects and he provides opportunity. And you do things and you find yourself in places and in situations that you know without a doubt are exactly where you need to be, even though you would have never imagined or picked them for yourselves. And so we have to extend that same grace and that same opportunity to our kids. So don’t ever think that those decisions are final. And so that is what I encourage my kids all the time. I’m like, life is always full of change. Change is inevitable. Attitude is optional. So that is how I would close this out.

Gretchen Roe: 00:56:02.539
Terrific. Jody

Jody Scott: 00:56:05.360
that was really great. I guess my thought would be that before you do anything, inquire of the Lord. The God of the universe who created your child knows your child, knows you. He says, “Call to me and I will answer you and I will tell you great and unsearchable–” like Google, “unsearchable things you do not know.” He will tell us unsearchable things. He will reveal things to us. And so you never stop seeking him regarding your children. And he may tell you things that, gosh, no one else is doing that. That’s okay. That’s your lane. Don’t look to the left. Don’t look to the right. Focus on that vision that God’s given you for your family and your children and don’t compare with other people.

Gretchen Roe: 00:57:14.806
I love that. Don’t look to the left, don’t look to the right. And you know what? We have a terrible habit as homeschool parents of reading other people’s highlight reels, but we really don’t know what happens in their family. It’s up to us to row our boat and to keep our hands open and our hearts open and continue to listen. Thank you all so much for this time. Thank you for trusting us. We have resources that will be part of the show notes that will come to you as the follow-up. And if anything there brooks further questions for you, we encourage you to pick up the phone and give us a call. Reach out to us on live chat. We certainly want to be there to support you in your journey. Thank you all for joining us today. And we look forward to the next time that you’re with us. Take care, everyone. This is Gretchen Roe for The Demme Learning Show. Thanks for joining us. You can access the show notes and watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show or go on our YouTube channel. Be sure to rate, review, follow, or subscribe wherever you may be hearing this, especially if you really enjoyed it.

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