[00:00:00] Natalie Mack: You often feel that responsibility of, like, “How do I help my students know what they might be good at, what skills they have, or any potential next destinations?” I call them post-secondary destinations. We have college. We have trade, career, military, gap year. There are so many options. How do you help your students? It’s a relief for both the student who is always asked, “What are you doing next? Are you going to college? What do you want to be?”

[music]

[00:00:34] Gretchen Roe: Good morning, everyone. This is Gretchen Roe for The Demme Learning Show. I am so excited to welcome my friend, Natalie Mack, to talk about this subject. I have been waiting since May, when we decided that we were going to do this. We decided in May, we were going to have this conversation because I think this is so very important. What we’re going to talk about today is why the ASVAB may be a key to your student’s success.

I’ve been promoting this conversation, and people will say, “ASVAB, what is that?” I was at a Georgia football game this past weekend. I said something about this conversation, and somebody said, “You mean the military aptitude test?” I was like, “Ding, ding, ding, ha, somebody knows what I’m talking about.” We’re going to have a great opportunity to talk about this today. I’m really looking forward to hearing what Natalie has to say. I know you all are going to learn tremendous things. Natalie, all that having been said, please introduce yourself.

[00:01:35] Natalie: Yes. Hello, everyone. I am super excited to be here. It is always a great conversation with Gretchen on Demme Learning podcast. I was honored for her to invite me to talk about this ASVAB Career Exploration Program. I am a, gosh, retired military chaplain spouse. Actually, that means that my husband is a retired chaplain.

[00:01:59] Gretchen: Her husband’s retired. She isn’t retired in any way, shape, or form.

[00:02:03] Natalie: Yes, you’re right. Right, exactly. Yes, that’s a whole other story, Gretchen. Don’t tell them yet.

[laughter]

[00:02:09] Natalie: My husband was a Navy chaplain, served 34 years, retired. This coming December will be four years. We have five children that we have homeschooled to college and four are college graduates. Two have master’s degrees, and then one is a freshman. There was an age span there. Gosh, what else? I have just fell in love with this topic. I’ve experienced and been told the benefits from students as well as parents. I’m excited to talk about this today.

[00:02:41] Gretchen: You have provided support for families for so long in so many different capacities. Before we get into the subject, tell me a little bit about nataliemack.com.

[00:02:53] Natalie: Natalie Mack, LLC. On socials, it’s Homeschool Natalie Mack. I established it because, like you said, for so many years, families were impromptu saying, “Hey, can I pick your brain?” I’m thinking, “Oh, my brain is so picked already,” right? [laughs] What pieces do you want because it’s picked? Really, in my heart, I’ve always been passionate about homeschooling. I’ve always wanted to help families who need assistance, just a little inspiration, encouragement, a little maybe knowledge.

That’s how the Homeschool Natalie Mack got started. I write. I have a book, 101 Tips for Homeschoolers. I’ve been a journalist. Well, actually, pro bono as well as paid, but not professional journalist, but a writer for The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. They had a military column. I was the columnist. I write on HSLDA, their website. I have a lot of articles out. I also am a TEDx speaker, so I did the impact of homeschooling. You can take a look on YouTube. I think it’s at 38,000 views.

[00:04:07] Gretchen: I think we should include that link in our show notes. We’ll make sure that that gets included because I thought it was great.

[00:04:14] Natalie: Thank you. Thank you. I provide consultations. I speak around the world literally on homeschooling. I love doing that. I love looking out in the audience and seeing people like, wow, nodding their head in disbelief, and talking to families after who say, “Oh, gosh, I feel so much better. You answered my questions.” I just came to the conference. People wait a whole year to get for the convention season. They need encouragement. I just love it.

[00:04:45] Gretchen: My mother used to have a saying that said, “There’s no grass that grows under your feet.” That is really true because you are running 100 miles an hour, and I never know from where I’m going to hear from you.

[laughter]

[00:04:58] Natalie: Hey, Gretchen, when you said that, I got a vision. As a military family, we’ve lived overseas twice. We lived in Germany once, and then in Southern Italy. When you said 100 miles, I was thinking the Autobahn because I did love the Autobahn. [laughs] Maybe that’s how I live my life. I’m just thankful, God has called me into a lot of spaces. I just try to be humble with it and try to serve best I can, really.

[00:05:25] Gretchen: Tell me now how you found this to be such a remarkable tool for families.

[00:05:31] Natalie: Yes, so that goes back to some of the work that I have been blessed to do with some of the military branches, particularly with the Army is where it first started. Not just because we’re a military family, but professionally. I was invited out to Fort Carson about three years ago as one of their educators. They have an Army educator workshop at Fort Carson, and it’s a week-long event. I was the only homeschooler invited. They considered me a VIP, and I thought, “Oh, okay. All right. I’ll accept the title,” and then I started–

[00:06:09] Gretchen: Well, I consider you a VIP, so that’s pretty good.

[00:06:11] Natalie: Well, I consider you, too, so okay.

[laughter]

[00:06:16] Natalie: Just being exposed to the whole enlistment side, obviously, for those who don’t know, my husband being a Navy chaplain, he was an officer. I had friends whose service members enlisted and all. That wasn’t it as much as the process to enlist. That’s what led me into, “Oh, this ASVAB. Tell me more. Oh, it’s a career exploration tool? Say what?” Okay, I need that for our youngest, right? Just to give him a little extra information about himself and skills.

I sat about looking how to do it, and I thought, “Oh, I can contact the MEPS and set up one for my community, or I can find out if my local high school offers it.” I chose to set it up for my community because I think that’s what I tend to do. It took off. We’ll talk more, but I’m now hosting it for large support groups, large co-ops, the state org. Some of them have reached out. I recently was in Ohio in October for CHEO, Christian Home Educators of Ohio.

Right now, I’ve been talking with Florida in Orlando for FPEA, Homeschoolers of Maine. Definitely, I’m on the books for that for, I believe, March. There’s others out there. Definitely, if you are a homeschool convention coordinator, then definitely, I would love to talk to you about bringing this amazing tool, this free tool. I do offer it as a coordination package, so there are costs for my services.

The tool itself, the test itself, is free. I always want to make sure I’m real clear when I’m speaking on it. Also, I should put out a disclaimer. I’m not speaking on behalf of ASVAB. I’m not speaking on behalf of any of the military branches. This is totally a service that I offer. They are aware that I offer it, and they’re okay with it, but I’m not at all speaking on behalf of them or HSLDA. I should say that, too. Sorry, had to get my disclaimers.

[00:08:26] Gretchen: No, I think that that’s important for us to understand, but it’s also important, I think, for parents to understand that if you have a child that is like one of my kids who, when you said, “What do you want to do after high school?” and they said, “I don’t know,” this is a wonderful tool to at least help a student define what their strengths are.

[00:08:50] Natalie: Exactly. Exactly. It really is. It really is. Not only for the student, it’s a relief for parents who, I think– and I’m not going to speak for all homeschool parents, but I think that, many times, we function as the guidance counselor. We know that for those high schoolers. Whether they’re going to college or not, they’re going somewhere when they graduated.

[00:09:14] Gretchen: Right. I don’t want them sitting on my sofa eating Cheetos, and watching TV.

[laughter]

[00:09:19] Natalie: Right. Yes, but Cheetos are good, though. [laughs]

[00:09:24] Gretchen: They might be my husband’s personal kryptonite, which is why I called that one up.

[laughter]

[00:09:30] Natalie: Yes, it’s such a relief for parents, too. Typically, the mom is the main homeschool person, right? You often feel that responsibility of, like, “How do I help my students know what they might be good at, what skills they have, or any potential next destinations?” I call them post-secondary destinations. We have college. We have trade, career, military, gap year. There are so many options.

How do you help your students? It’s a relief for both the student who is always asked, “What are you doing next? Are you going to college? What do you want to be?” Homeschoolers, we don’t have access to some of the bells and whistles that maybe a brick-and-mortar has with a career guidance department. Whether it’s great or not, something’s there. If someone designated to do that job, whether they do it well or not, that’s debatable, but somebody’s there, so we are it.

[00:10:30] Gretchen: Natalie, if I were a parent listening to our conversation, how would I avail myself of your services for this test?

[00:10:42] Natalie: That is a good question. When I coordinate with what’s called the MEPS, Military Entrance Processing Station, so I’m trying not to use military acronyms without explaining them.

[00:10:55] Gretchen: Well, you’re going to have to because they use them all the time. You’ll just have to explain them. My husband spent five years in the Army. I get it. [laughs]

[00:11:03] Natalie: Right. Sometimes I forget, and I just talk in acronyms. When I coordinate with the MEPS, who are the ones who bring this test to homeschoolers or to public schools, I try to give them a sound number of at least 20 students, because this is a new initiative for them. They want to reach the homeschool community. It is an interested market. This is a market they are targeting that they want to bring this to. Haven’t quite figured it out.

Meanwhile, I have. Hopefully, I’m serving our community because I believe in the tool. Having said that, I try to have about a minimum of 20. What does that mean for you, the individual homeschooler? That may or may not work necessarily. What I would like to do is get the word out that if you have a large homeschool group where you see you have those numbers of high schoolers from 10th to 12th grade, no 9th graders, then let’s talk about it because I really want to try to figure out how we can do it.

Sometimes, co-ops come together in an area. I have maybe six in my small co-op at a high school, and I have 10, whatever. I’m willing to work it out and help you brainstorm how to bring it to your community. It’s always up to the MEPS because I have to schedule with them. It’s based on the regional MEPS that are closest to where you want the test held. I’m not promising anything until they give me a yes and it’s scheduled. I should say that. So far, it’s working, and everything’s going well.

The other way you can get the test is that you can contact your local high school, because I want to be transparent about that. I do offer the service, but I want to let you know. You can contact your local high school and see if they offer it. If they do offer it, if they will allow you as a homeschooled student, your student should come in and take it. Then the second piece is if they say yes, then please be aware that most high school guidance counselors, when they have this test offered to their students, they automatically give the scores to the military. What I do, because I’m a homeschooled parent or I’m a homeschooler, retired at this point as of June–

[00:13:19] Gretchen: Natalie, let’s be real. You’re never going to retire. [laughs]

[00:13:22] Natalie: Right, I know. I keep saying this word “retired,” and I’m so far from retired. I’m like, “Okay, got to cross that out.” What I actually have tried to do is let students know that that’s what’s going to happen generally. You would need to have a conversation with the guidance counselor because when I schedule it, I check off on the registration scheduling form for the MEPS. I checked off scores will not be released.

Then I let parents know, if you have a student who’s interested in enlisting, this is your free will to give your scores. I’m protecting us as homeschoolers. Maybe that’s not the right word, “protecting,” because I don’t believe that it’s a threat or a worry. I’m pro-military service, but I also want to protect family’s comfort level in really taking this opportunity as a career assessment and not worry about, “Oh, gosh, I want the career assessment for my student, but I’m worried that, now, they’re going to be contacted to enlist.” That just might not be their journey or what you are wanting for your family. That’s what I mean by protect.

[00:14:31] Gretchen: I think I understand, but I’m going to ask you to clarify.

[00:14:34] Natalie: Sure.

[00:14:35] Gretchen: You can take this test, but it doesn’t necessarily obligate you to pursue a military experience.

[00:14:43] Natalie: Exactly.

[00:14:43] Gretchen: That’s one of the things that makes it an attractive way to at least sort what your skill sets are and what you might be interested in.

[00:14:53] Natalie: Exactly. The ASVAB, which a lot of people have heard and like we’ve talked before, people say, “Oh, that’s that test for the military to enlist. That’s that test my cousin took. Oh, I took that in high school because I was thinking about enlisting.” Yes, while that is still the valid test, that’s the test that everyone who wants to enlist has to take. Now, as of in the ’90s, they added this career exploration program because the military saw an opportunity to help students shape, give them the tools in that arena.

Of course, yes. Was part of the motivation that maybe they would see that they scored high, and they could enlist and they could have a career in the military? Sure. That’s honest. I’m sure it was. At the same time, it became an amazing aptitude test, not only just for that, but also the career exploration piece that is part of the component. That’s a free opportunity. That’s amazing. For homeschoolers, it’s really important that they hear ASVAB.

You may have a student who wants to enlist, but also the career exploration piece, and the scores don’t have to be given. You’re not signing that you’re going to enlist. There’s no commitment. Literally, when you come in and take the test on the day of the test, the military is not even administering it. It’s the MEPS. This is a separate organization designed to help students who get ready for enlistment, but they also do the physical exams, and they do this test. They have testers who are trained to administer this test.

You may see some military there in uniform. I usually invite them, or the MEPS may say they can proctor it, but they are not there to administer it because it’s a conflict of interest. They are also not there to talk about enlistment. You may come in and go, “Oh, the military’s here.” Don’t worry. They cannot initiate a conversation about enlistment. You and your student can. That’s why I like them to be there because I know some students really do want to know more about enlistment, but they cannot initiate it.

[00:17:13] Gretchen: What kind of things would I, as a parent, learn about my student or would my student learn about themselves by taking this test?

[00:17:21] Natalie: The aptitude part has the verbal and the math and all. You’re going to learn that. In particular, I would say maybe your student hasn’t taken the SAT or ACT or something like that. It’s a great opportunity just to see how well they do in those areas because it does have those questions, that component. I know that this test can’t be used for college admissions, though.

I should say that because I know I just mentioned SAT and ACT, so somebody may correlate, “Oh, this could work there.” It won’t work there, y’all. It has that component. Also, the career exploration side of it, they will correlate certain questions within those sections. It will give you insight into, are you good mechanically? Are you good electronically? Do you have skills that would make you good in any sort of career?

They have a correlation that happens once you finish taking this test, depending upon the type of test. We can get into that because there’s different formats for the test. The one I encourage and one that I coordinate is a computerized or digital one. Once you finish, your score is digital. They are immediately available. What happens after you take this test is the post-test interpretation.

That happens all in the same day. I schedule that on purpose because that post-test interpretation, known as a PTI, is where the tester will say, “Okay, everyone, everyone’s finished,” because it’s self-paced. You get to take your time on it to some degree. Most homeschoolers take it and finish in about an hour and a half to two hours. When everyone is finished, the tester will initiate this PTI.

He will say or she will say, “Open up your laptops again. Log back into your portal that they just were on to take the test, and your scores will be available, and they will be there.” Then this post-test interpretation involves going through your scores. The tester talks from the front of the room and usually has a slide projection and says, “Okay, you should be on this section. This is where you’ll see dot, dot, dot. This is what it correlates. This is what you need to do with this.”

This is how you can use the rest of this website to go deeper than what he or she can do in the PTI. It’s a full program behind the scenes after the student takes the test. I always ask the parents to please come back in for that PTI. You obviously can’t stay during the test, but please come back in for that because this is a time as homeschool parents, we want to know not only how our student did, but what will help me help my student?

[00:20:16] Gretchen: Right. Well, it opens the dialogue for you to be able to have a conversation because it’s not a one-and-done. It’s just a starting place to be able to help parents understand. I think that makes a tremendous difference for parents to be able to understand how their children are relating to the materials as well.

[00:20:38] Natalie: Exactly, yes. It’s been amazing. Students have said, “Wow, I was a little apprehensive.” Students, it’s testing, right? You can see the little jittery coming in and looking around. I’m crazy, right? Your audience may say, “She’s–” I’m an extrovert. I love people. I don’t jump on the parents and the kids when they come in, but I can welcome you.

I recognize a little anxiety sometimes on the part of both the parent and the student because the parent is like, “Oh, my student’s being tested,” or now, we’re in a room with a bunch of people we don’t know. Sometimes homeschoolers haven’t had that experience. It can be adjustment. I try to settle their nerves and say, “Okay, don’t worry. This is a test to just find out where you are right now. You don’t need to pre-study, unless you want to enlist.” We should talk about that piece about pre-studying for enlistment. I do try to calm them down and let them know it’s okay.

[00:21:37] Gretchen: Well, I think in the homeschool world, it’s the longest journey you ever take before you get feedback on how the journey has gone.

[00:21:47] Natalie: Yes, I love that.

[00:21:49] Gretchen: Parents sitting in that room, in a way, it feels like an assessment of, “How did we do in preparing our children?” The fact that you are giving parents the capacity to understand that it’s just a point in time is really important.

[00:22:09] Natalie: Right, yes, it’s just a point in time. It’s just another tool in the toolbox, right? The more tools you have, the more you and your student can confidently go to that next phase, right? Yes, definitely, so I recognize that. I know how it feels. I remember just talking to so many of the parents. It’s just important. In Ohio, I did the same thing. It’s like, “Okay. Hey, I’m Natalie Mack, and I coordinated the test. Come on in. What’s your name? Oh, great. We’re excited that you’re here. Just find a seat.”

I’ve already talked to the organization host, like CHEO in that case for Ohio, to say, “Okay, we need a room that has about this much space and all those background details.” I do try to make sure the families and the kids come on in. They get connected, get their laptop. They have to bring a laptop or Google Chromebook. Those are the only two ways you can take this digital test called the ICAT. Bring up your charger, even though you charge it at home. Maybe you have a weak battery. We don’t want that. All those kinds of things.

Just help them get comfortable. Then the parents leave, but then I do say, “Please come back.” About an hour and a half-ish, let them know it’s a window because I don’t want parents– You said hour and a half. There’s still someone taking the test. The parents, they understand, and they’re excited about it. I think it’s great because they can sit next to their student, ideally, and say, “Oh, okay,” and ask questions of the– because I also help the MEPS note. We are homeschoolers.

[00:23:47] Gretchen: We are born to ask questions.

[00:23:49] Natalie: Right. We’re going to ask questions, and it’s going to be okay with you that we do.

[laughter]

[00:23:57] Gretchen: That is very true. We’re going to ask them, so you better get comfortable real quick.

[00:24:02] Natalie: Parents are welcome. That’s going to be okay because, remember, they are used to being in a public school. Parents aren’t in there, right? Sometimes I have to say–

[00:24:14] Gretchen: Did you have your son take this test?

[00:24:17] Natalie: Yes, I had our youngest son take the test. Yes.

[00:24:20] Gretchen: From a parental perspective, now, help us understand. What kind of information did you learn? Maybe what was unexpected for you, or did it all align like, “Yes, that’s what I expected all the way down the line”?

[00:24:41] Natalie: Yes. Gosh, I think with us, we pretty much knew that he wasn’t interested in the STEMs, but he has a lot of ability with electronics and things like that. Pretty much at that point, we already knew he was college-bound. Again, that’s probably an important thing to say is this test can give you answers and resources and a little extra, no matter where you’re going.

We talked about the fact that there’s no requirement to enlist. We talked about that piece. For my student and maybe others, he was college-bound, so then we were able to use it to say, “Okay, this confirms that you’re going to be good going into the area of college and everything.” We were able to actually use that. The other students that came, there were some– This was the first time I offered it.

We had 23 students. There’s one. Matter of fact, I had a cool story. I was in the airport recently, going to the HSLDA National Leaders Conference. Our flights were delayed. It was hectic. I was talking at the desk at the check-in, waiting to board. Someone later came up to me and said, “Hey, don’t I know you? Don’t we know each other?” I thought, “Oh, you look familiar.”

[00:26:08] Gretchen: Natalie, you meet people all across the US. We find each other all the way across the US all the time.

[00:26:16] Natalie: “Gretchen’s here. Gretchen’s here.” We love it, don’t we? I just think, “Oh, it’s so good to see you.” This fan, long story short, this was a mom whose son had taken that first test.

[00:26:27] Gretchen: Oh, wow.

[00:26:28] Natalie: She said, “Thank you so much.” She said, “My son is down at Fort Benning,” so he enlisted.

[00:26:35] Gretchen: Oh, wow.

[00:26:36] Natalie: He had a really good score, so he enlisted. She said, “He’s loving it.” She said, “Are you going to offer it again? Because my youngest son, he’s now in high school. He’s 10th grade. I would love it.” He was standing there, and he was smiling and everything. That was like, wow. Not only the day of the test, what parents told me, but just at a random airport, like, “Say what?” In my area here in Northern Virginia, it was like, “Wow.” It’s been a great experience. I’ve had more parents and students say, “This was really, really helpful, and thank you so much.”

[00:27:14] Gretchen: That’s terrific. What kind of insights do you glean from the tests? What kind of things can it tell a parent?

[00:27:22] Natalie: It can tell a parent, again, the aptitude piece. Again, like we talked about, it can give you an idea of where your child is. Now, understand, standardized tests are normed. I always caution that because there are people homeschooled who test, and they get worried about scores.

[00:27:39] Gretchen: I promise you, there’s somebody sitting in our audience who does not know what that means. You and I both know what that means because of our experiences, but can you explain that?

[00:27:49] Natalie: Yes, so that means that they have a population that they’ve tested it on, and they have a percentile of scores. How certain students in a certain grade score, even in certain regions, they’ve been able to break it down into that for all standardized tests, right?

[00:28:06] Gretchen: Sure.

[00:28:06] Natalie: SAT, ACT, all of them are normed. The CAT, California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, all of those are normed. What I always caution is that they are normed based on what traditional students in that grade should be learning or should have learned. As I should say, should have learned, right? As homeschoolers, we get to determine what our students learn, right? That doesn’t mean that we’ve already covered.

You could be using a math that isn’t a traditional type of math, right? You maybe haven’t covered a concept that you will cover later in the scope and sequence of that particular math. You have to take these test results with a grain of salt, but they are relevant. They do give you somewhat of a benchmark if you keep them in perspective. The aptitude part of that is what parents can actually use and learn. Again, like I said, they will correlate the skills.

You’ll come out with all of these amazing correlations between the questions that they’ve already tagged that will indicate different types of careers. Then after that, there’s this– it’s called the Find Your Interests inventory. That’s part of the test. It’s the FYI. That part is designed to go more deep into careers. Then afterwards, they’ll use something called the IQ play. It actually will go into giving you correlations, even in more detail.

[00:29:47] Gretchen: Oh, interesting.

[00:29:48] Natalie: That’s why that PTI is so important, because if you aren’t able to sit in on that, your student will have their password.

[00:29:58] Gretchen: You still have the information, but that helps you parse how it is.

[00:30:02] Natalie: Exactly. Exactly. You become more familiar with that website. Later, you and your student at home say, “Hey, let’s look over your scores, and let’s use that website to go deeper like we were just instructed last week or two weeks ago in the PTI.” You now feel enabled as a parent to know how to use it as well, because you’ve been in that PTI session. Sometimes our students are in sessions and they come back, and they are like, “Oh, yes, it was great, and I learned this. I don’t quite know what else to say, Mom, but that’s all.” [laughs] Mom and Dad are like, “That can’t be all. That can’t be all. I know you were there for two and a half hours.”

[00:30:50] Gretchen: Well, a little bit of that has to do with whether you’re an external processor like we are. We’ll talk about everything. If you’re an internal processor, which my husband is, you’re thinking about it. I cannot tell you, over the last 45 years of us being together, how many times he’s come to me and said, “Did I tell you blah, blah, blah?” I’m like, “No,” and he did in his head.

[00:31:15] Natalie: In his head.

[00:31:16] Gretchen: He had the whole conversation, but he never actually verbalized it-

[00:31:24] Natalie: Yes, I loved it.

[00:31:25] Gretchen: -to annoy me, but it gave me great insight into my kids, because half of my kids are internal processors, and half of them are external processors.

[00:31:34] Natalie: External processors, right, yes. My husband and I are the same way. He’s internal processing. I had to learn to appreciate the pauses when he said anything. God had to help me appreciate the pauses because I was like–

[00:31:50] Gretchen: And?

[00:31:50] Natalie: I would have been like, “Blah, blah, blah,” boom, done.

[crosstalk]

[00:31:57] Natalie: I can talk slowly. I can’t meet you where I am, because I was a licensed therapist, so I actually know how to moderate. You and I, the energy we have, we work together.

[00:32:09] Gretchen: As my husband said, well, you and I also had the privilege of talking in the spring about the NCAA. I will make sure that I include those notes, because I guarantee you, there’ll be someone who watched this recording and want to know the information you had to share about NCAA qualifications.

[00:32:29] Natalie: Yes, I love that. That was great. That’s another passion I have because of lived experience with our youngest daughter. It was good, yes.

[00:32:36] Gretchen: Sure, that’s right. I can’t believe we’re all the way at the top of the hour, so Natalie–

[00:32:40] Natalie: It always happens.

[00:32:41] Gretchen: It does because time just passes too fast. When we get together, it seems like it just goes in a blink of an eye. What would be the closing words you would have for families to be able to take away from our conversation?

[00:32:54] Natalie: Recognize that there is this tool that can assist you in guiding your student, that you’re not in this journey alone. You can find access to this opportunity, get some insight, help yourself as the guidance counselor, and also give your student a sense of calm and relief, and a sense of information about who they are and what they’re good at.

[00:33:19] Gretchen: Absolutely. Natalie, your website is nataliemack.com? Is there a dot in there anywhere besides the dot-com?

[00:33:26] Natalie: Yes, it’s Natalie, and then a hyphen, Mack, M-A-C-K.com. Definitely check me out. On socials, I’m Homeschool Natalie Mack. I’m on all the platforms of socials. I will say, for the military families who are listening, I do have a nonprofit called Military Homeschoolers Association. If you’re interested, you can look us up. That’s the name on socials as well.

[00:33:51] Gretchen: That’s right. We shall include that in the notes as well, just in case a family wants to check that out as well, because Natalie does everything. Natalie, I want to thank you-

[00:34:02] Natalie: I try to keep up with Gretchen.

[00:34:03] Gretchen: -for spending this time with me. [chuckles] I really appreciate it very much. I want to thank our audience for flexing with us on the time today.

[00:34:10] Natalie: Yes, definitely.

[00:34:11] Gretchen: You can see how valuable this conversation was. I didn’t want us to miss the opportunity. Natalie just has as many irons in the fire as I do. We just had to flex a little bit on the time. Thank you all for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Those of you, next week, there will be no Demme Learning Show because Thanksgiving is coming. We wish you all a joyous holiday week. We’ll look forward to joining you the week after. Take care, everyone. Have a wonderful afternoon. Thanks for inviting us into your living rooms. Bye-bye.

[00:34:46] Announcer: Thanks again for joining us. We’re glad to be a part of your educational community. You can help us grow our community even more by rating, reviewing, and subscribing to the show wherever you may be hearing this. Don’t forget that you can access the show notes and watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show or on our YouTube channel. We’ll see you again next time. Until then, keep building strong foundations for lifelong learning.

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